Running with Problems
A podcast about the lives of runners and the problems we face.
Running with Problems
The Runcations Episode, featuring Tour du Mont Blanc
Join Miranda and Jon as they discuss Run-cations (a portmanteau of Run and Vacation!) and Miranda's recent experience running the Tour du Mont Blanc.
Links:
- More than Miles: Why Runcations are a Rising Travel Trend article on Outside
- Eric Lee's Blog on Adventures and National Park Runs
=== AI-Generated Description Follows ===
Miranda and Jon dive into the world of "runcations" – vacations centered around running adventures – sharing experiences from Tour de Mont Blanc and discussing what makes these journeys both challenging and transformative.
• Runcations can take many forms: destination races, multi-day trail adventures, national park runs
• Different styles suit different runners – from luxury accommodations to more rugged experiences
• Community and shared experiences are central to what makes runcations special
• The Tour de Mont Blanc crosses through France, Italy, and Switzerland with distinct cultural experiences in each
• Running through multiple countries allows you to experience dramatic differences in trail marking, food, and architecture
• Finding balance between challenge and enjoyment is key – it's not about racing but experiencing
• Technical skills like downhill running may require practice before tackling alpine trails
• Flexibility matters – sometimes taking a gondola or shuttle enhances rather than diminishes the experience
• Proper fueling becomes crucial when running multiple big days back-to-back
• Switzerland has the best homemade ice cream and the most whimsical trail decorations
Find a group of people who you want to spend four or five days with running. Plan a runcation. Make it happen. You won't regret it. Be open to the experience, be open to how it changes you and how it shapes you, and enjoy the journey.
Thanks for listening to Running With Problems. Follow us on Instagram @runningwithproblems. DM us there with questions in text or audio messages! Or email us at podcast@runningwithproblems.run.
Hosted by Jon Eisen (@mildly_athletic) and Miranda Williamson (@peaksandjustice). Edited by Jon Eisen. Theme music by Matt Beer.
Hello and welcome to Running With Problems. My name is Jon Eisen.
Speaker 2:And I'm Miranda Williamson.
Speaker 1:Running With Problems is a podcast about runners and the problems they inevitably face. Today on the podcast, we have Miranda and Jon talking about.
Speaker 2:Runcations.
Speaker 1:And specifically the Tour de Mont Blanc.
Speaker 2:If you get to the end, you get to hear about my TMB trip.
Speaker 1:We buried the lead over 45 minutes into this episode.
Speaker 2:So if you make it to the end, you can hear all about TMB.
Speaker 1:And maybe the AI that I use to mark chapters in this episode will allow you to skip to that. Maybe not.
Speaker 2:But I think our conversation leading up to it is interesting.
Speaker 1:I thought we had a great conversation. If you enjoy episodes, this is one of the episodes where we just have Miranda and John, and it's a good version of that. I think we were very relaxed, we're very into each other and we have a good vibe, so I hope you guys enjoy this episode.
Speaker 2:Do we want to check in? Do you want to share anything about your Dark Divide experience, or do we want to do a whole episode on that a bit later?
Speaker 1:I don't think I'm ready to recap that. I don't know if it's a full episode, but if it is, it's not right now. Gotcha, I think it's like not fully realized in my head. I want to write a race report about Dark Divide. I want to think through the experience and really distill and I want to write a report about my random slam.
Speaker 2:Amazing Okay, yes.
Speaker 1:For the listeners like the slam is the idea that you run four difficult races that are connected in some sort of way. But I ran four difficult races that are completely unconnected and take place in four different biomes, so I just called it a random slam. Obviously, slam here is in reference to the grand slam, which is the four of the five oldest 100 milers in the country over four months, which is obviously in reference to the grand slam in baseball, where you hit in four runners, three of which are on base and one is you. Um yeah, so it's a it's a whole layers thing, but I think, to answer your question, I want a little more time to process.
Speaker 2:That makes a lot of sense and we'll just like keep, but I guess it should be said I finished. Yes, that's exactly what I was going to say. I was going to say let's not leave our listeners in suspense, let's let them know that you finished.
Speaker 1:I finished, I finished, I finished, uh, finished all four of the races I signed up for at the beginning of this year. Well, I mean, dark Divide was a last minute switch from Plane 100, which had to be canceled, but essentially it takes place also in Washington and took place one week apart, so it was a good replacement. But you know, I started this year, I signed up for these four races and effectively I finished that effort and I finished Dark Divide and I finished it in 39 hours and 20 minutes. It's the longest I've ever run and I have so much to say about that whole experience. But I will save that for later.
Speaker 2:Great, we'll do a whole episode on John's random slam and I will interview him. It's just been decided, and that's where we'll talk much more about Dark Divide, definitely, so I think we should get into this episode. I think we've recapped it. It's a long one, no need to intro anymore.
Speaker 1:Great If you would like to provide us feedback, if you want to tell us about episodes, ideas you have, or if you just want to tell us you loved an episode, or if you want to tell us you hated an episode, we have a specific email for that. I'll read it to you later. But if you want to tell us that you love us, our email is podcast at runningwithproblemsrun, or hit us up on Instagram at runningwithproblems. We'd love to hear from you. We have great episodes planned. We have a lot of fun guests coming up. I know we keep saying that and we keep doing it. We just keep delivering. We're so awesome and I hope you guys love us and give us a little rating or review or share us on Instagram or your favorite uh like in-person verbal communication method. Just uh, let people know about the pod. It's the best thing you can do for us and that's it Without further ado. Brandon John on run Cations door to Mont Blanc all that great stuff.
Speaker 2:Enjoy.
Speaker 1:It's been a long time coming.
Speaker 2:Welcome back to the pod, John Eisen.
Speaker 1:And Miranda Williamson.
Speaker 2:We are the guests today.
Speaker 1:We've been talking about this episode for a while.
Speaker 2:And now we are recording Runcations.
Speaker 1:Are you excited to have this discussion?
Speaker 2:I am. I think it's a fun discussion A fun topic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you've been talking about it for a while.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I suppose we'll bury the lead and not talk about Run the Alps first.
Speaker 2:Yes or.
Speaker 1:Tour de Mont Blanc. First we're going to use an article to spark conversation about Runcations. No, I think first we're going to do a little cheers. Cheers to you, Miranda.
Speaker 2:Cheers to you, gorgeous.
Speaker 1:We're drinking some wonderful wine we brought back from Gran Canaria.
Speaker 2:A runcation.
Speaker 1:A runcation we went on earlier this year.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And yeah, we've, we've achieved our goals.
Speaker 2:Wow, what a year.
Speaker 1:This is incredible. Like we, I don't know. This podcast isn't really about goals and achieving.
Speaker 2:We'll get to that in another episode.
Speaker 1:I just want to say cheers to you, cheers to me.
Speaker 2:Cheers to us. Yeah, we've done a great job this year, so let's get into this article that is about runcations. This article is okay, more Than Miles why Runcations Are a Rising Travel Trend, by Jennifer Melloy, and it's just an article that is about how you can turn your vacation into a running adventure.
Speaker 1:And, I think, the different kinds of running adventures that exist, although I think there's infinitely more possibility of everything in between.
Speaker 2:Yeah, they don't really talk about races as a running vacation necessarily in this article. They talk about more like multi-day running adventures.
Speaker 1:Well, my company's. The vacation time I request from my company would disagree if races weren't considered vacation. It's pretty much all I spend my vacation time on.
Speaker 2:Exactly, and that is what we did in Gran Canaria. That was a running vacation centered around a race. That was also a big vacation.
Speaker 1:That was absolutely a running vacation. I think that we spent the first week sort of like preparing for the race, scouting things, going down to pack and pick up, and we did the race and the race was epic and we got to see this new place and explore it and then afterwards we got to do a victory lap around the city we were staying in and we got a real vacation.
Speaker 2:We were wine tasting, where we got this beautiful wine we're drinking right now.
Speaker 1:We went to the beach. I left you at the beach because you liked the beach a lot more than me.
Speaker 2:Not, I didn't like the beach more than I like you. I liked the beach more than John liked the beach. Correct, yes, just to be clear.
Speaker 1:Absolutely clear. No, uh, yeah, I just I I enjoy beach a little bit.
Speaker 2:So it was a cool way to experience that island, and I don't think we would have gone there if it weren't for the running event that brought us there.
Speaker 1:No, I don't. Americans don't go to the Canaries. It's just not. It's not a destination for Americans, and I can see why. Given the fact that it took us 24 hours of flight travel to get there and 32 hours to get back, those both sound like 100 mile finishing times, more than times it takes to be on an airplane and in airports.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I've been on several runcations, yeah, and one recently. So I think Soft Rock counts as a runcation Absolutely, and TMB counts as a runcation.
Speaker 1:Definitely is the run, but getting to stay in hostels, hotels or camping as a methodology to like, get through the experience without having to go single effort or single segment, which makes everything just like much harder and requires more support. So the whole idea is that you get to do these long trails that normally require I mean, hard rock has, you know three to 500 volunteers to support the 200 runners, or a hundred, 150 runners I always forget how many runners are there, but you know, when you go and do soft rock, you're saying, okay, I don't want any of that support, but how can I do this course, these miles, without that support? And it's like, okay, I need to break it up. In a few days Our neighbor, john Barker, did it in preparation for his hard rock run, solo camping, and he actually found that very difficult.
Speaker 2:Wow, that would be difficult.
Speaker 1:Mostly because camping sites on the course are pretty rare. Right, it is not like a long trail where there's like campsites just kind of everywhere. No, uh-uh.
Speaker 2:No, I mean, it's very wild out there.
Speaker 1:Well, it's wild, and it also goes through cities where you can't camp Right. It's just kind of everywhere. No, uh-uh, no, I mean— it's very wild out there. Well, it's wild, and it also goes through cities where you can't camp Right. So this normal place you would stay in between days on Soft Rock are the four—well the three cities in the one campsite. Actually, hysterically, sherman is the easiest to find a campsite at, because it is a campsite, or at least a parking lot that's not in a town. But the other three are in towns and you can't legally camp in the town without permission.
Speaker 1:So it made it more difficult to find spots.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and the way I did that is staying in hotels, as normal listeners would remember, and I love how you know.
Speaker 1:When we talk about runcations, an important part of it is you get to do it your style. So tell us about your style.
Speaker 2:My style, your style? Okay, Tell me, my style is definitely this running a really hard day, a big hard day, spending the entire day in the mountains and then staying in a posh nice hotel with a comfy bed and a warm shower, a jacuzzi's preferable good dinner. That is my style. What is your style? Ooh, that is my style?
Speaker 1:what is your style? Oh, what is my style? I don't think I have a style of these. I've never done, never done anything like soft rock or tour de mont blanc. I've done a couple backpacking, but those are different, so we're kind of not including those in this category.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I really prefer the. I guess my favorite running vacation we've ever done was, or that I've ever done was. I suppose I have two classes of favorite. I really enjoyed Transgrant Canaria, which we've talked about many times so far. The way we stayed in a really nice place, a central place, in a city, right, got to explore and have that European city vacation mixed with an incredibly hard event that you know. That really fills my soul. Obviously I like the really hard events. That was really cool and that would probably be one of my high points. Another really fun running vacation for me is the group vacation.
Speaker 1:The group goes to run a race, so we just got back from Dark Divide 100, which we are definitely not recapping here, no, but we will recap. I suppose we'll have to. And at Dark Divide we had a whole crew of people. I suppose we'll have to, and at Dark Divide we had a whole crew of people. We probably we had what four runners in the 100 that we knew, three runners in the 100K, which out of I believe there were only maybe 50 to 60 starters combined between those two races and we knew seven people. That means we knew over 10% of the race. So that's kind of a big. That's like you know, at a major city marathon that means you know two, 2,500 people in the race. Like that's a lot of people, 10% of the whole race. So that was really cool.
Speaker 1:We had like a Airbnb situation and we got to see people and I I remember a long time ago I went and ran the Rut, which is in Big Sky, montana, and we had a bunch of people out on Airbnb and a really long time ago wow, we're really digging back in John's history brain, I believe in 2000 and gosh, I want to say 17,.
Speaker 1:And gosh, I want to say 17,. All of my friends came out to run the Moab Trail Marathon and it happened on my birthday and that was pretty incredible to have everyone running this race and some people ran the half marathon, some people ran the full marathon and we hung out afterwards and everyone goes through this shared experience. And maybe, just maybe, miranda, maybe something that I love about these group vacations to run the race I'm sure you love that because you've done this before and I would love to hear you talk about your group vacations. But before you do, do you think your love of the multi-day running adventure in part is similar to that to the group race run, where, at the end of the day, you're all together? You're talking about your experience, your shared experience out there?
Speaker 2:Ah, yes, I do think there are some similarities. You're experiencing the same trails, the same adventure, and you're in community. Yeah, definitely similarities.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so do you enjoy the group race? Group goes to run a race.
Speaker 2:I do. My friends and I back in San Diego used to run a marathon a year together and we would go out and plan the marathon together, select the marathon together, train together and really enjoy the experience and really enjoy the experience. My favorite marathon I've ever run was one of these runcation adventures in Snoqualmie Jack and Jill Marathon, and it was amazing. I think we had a house of 13 of us and had such a great time running that marathon. We all had different goals. Some of us ran together, some of us were trying to Boston qualify not me and ran ahead. Yeah, it was great.
Speaker 1:And do you think of it as a real vacation? That, like having the other people there to share the experience with, made the vacation better, made you enjoy the area you were in more?
Speaker 2:Oh, completely Like I said, best marathon I've ever run. It's because I was running with people. Bear and I ran the entire marathon together, step for step. We finished within seconds of each other. I think he sprinted ahead of the end, but anyways, bear, each other. I think he sprinted ahead of the end, but anyways, fair. But it was an amazing experience. That was amplified by sharing it with people who I care about and who are not from the area. So we were experiencing the area and the trail and the adventure together Trail slash road, slash gravel road, slightly downhill gravel road. Yeah, that's what that is. That's what Jack and Jill is.
Speaker 1:We actually met somebody on the plane to Dark Divide. Who is going to run, I guess the new version of Jack and Jill. I don't keep up with marathons, so if Jack and Jill still exists, please don't I think Jack and Jill still exists.
Speaker 2:It was just a different month but it ran part of the course, Definitely the first part where it goes through the tunnel.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean he was running cascade express marathon or something like that.
Speaker 1:Anyway, it's a downhill marathon. It's like the weekend before boston changes its rules and downhill marathons with more than 1500 feet of negative elevation don't count anymore. And he was trying to Boston qualify. But yeah, we're sitting on the plane this guy sitting next to us he's generally a little nervous, he's getting up, standing around a lot, but you know, some people are like that on planes. And then I see him basically like writing out splits that add up to like 322. And I'm like huh, okay, and he writes down like 720. I guess that's his like pace. And then he gets out and I start to look over at his phone. I'm a little creepy like that and it's like marathon running plan and I'm like okay, all right, all right, all right.
Speaker 1:I I am fully confident, I know what's going on here. So we struck up a conversation. It's like yeah, I'm going to run a totally different running thing. Wow, he was trying to finish in under three and a half hours and I finished in under 48 hours.
Speaker 2:Well, I have two friends that I went to that Jack and Jill with that finished right around the three-hour mark. So Lisa Schroeder and Mike Klodfelter.
Speaker 1:Now they're both married. We're going to be. Now they're both married. We're going to be married.
Speaker 2:They're both married.
Speaker 1:Both married.
Speaker 2:Mike was married at the time.
Speaker 1:Good for Mike.
Speaker 2:He was early marrier. He chose well. He did Michelle's a catch. He needed to put a ring on it. Put a ring on it. Good job, Mike. But I have two quotes I pulled from the article. Going back to the article that I wanted to see which one resonated with you, or which parts of them resonate with you. Okay, so basically they're talking about why runcations are great.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And the first one is shared trails, shared values and a sense of purpose beyond the workout, especially with a local guide. Does any part of that one resonate with you?
Speaker 1:Well, I think it goes back. I like this shared trails, shared values, right? I just asked that question right because I made this connection that when you're out there with friends and then you get to hang out afterwards, you don't just like disappear, right, like with the local race. When all of our friends go together for a local race, usually afterwards we're probably just splitting up and going back to our houses because we're all lame old people.
Speaker 2:We're tired. We need showers, yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely. But when you, when you have that shared experience and you are forced to or get to relive it and talk about it with your friends, like that shared experience, I think is a valuable part of like being outside of your comfort zone, outside of your, your home, your home territory was the last part of it, and you had a guide with one of your adventures, right?
Speaker 2:Or have you ever had a guide? I've never had a guide.
Speaker 1:No. Yeah, I'm not a guide guy.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we can't really speak to that one with a local guide.
Speaker 1:I kind of like to know where I'm going.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I love the planning process.
Speaker 2:I don't like the risk of not meshing well with the guide. Like my personality not meshing well and I've got four days with them.
Speaker 1:I don't know it's their job to mesh with you. Yeah, more than likely, everything's fine. Yeah, like if you're, I mean I wouldn't be against a guide in a certain situation, like if it was more technically challenging than I'm capable of. Oh, right, like maybe there are some rock climbing pieces to it or some traversing, or if we were like climbing a really high mountain.
Speaker 2:That makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 1:Like above 18,000 feet, you know, like in Mexico or Ecuador or the Andes, Mm-hmm. And there wasn't a lot of established trail and experience to read about it. I think that's where like guides can get really helpful.
Speaker 2:That's very true.
Speaker 1:Good point, because sometimes there's just not enough information online to scout it. I mean, tour de Mont Blanc takes place on like a maintained trail that runs through three countries, that has so much writing about it, so much maintenance on it, there's so much signage except in France, obviously.
Speaker 2:We'll get to that.
Speaker 1:But you can pull out your phone and the whole map's right there you have reception the whole way almost, but if you take this x, this exploration and adventure thing to the nth degree, you will find yourself in a country where you don't can't just pull out gaia on your phone and see the trail, and you can't just maybe run the route without certain pieces of gear. And so I think, when you get extreme, I think guides get very useful. And extreme for everyone is very different, right? So you and I consider running 100 miles around a mountain to be totally in our wheelhouse, right? That's where we're at, people.
Speaker 2:And navigating, that is completely fine. But if you needed to, if I needed to, like, what is that move? I don't see, I don't even know the name of it. Where you like, go down a rope backwards. What is it called? Descending, descending, repelling, repelling you're talking about when?
Speaker 1:about when you descend the length of the rope?
Speaker 2:It's called repelling.
Speaker 1:In a harness. Yes, part of like, if you have to canyoneer.
Speaker 2:Yes, so if that was necessary, it would be outside of my wheelhouse.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean we could learn to repel, but currently not, we don't actively climb, we don't have the rope skills Right. So if it was like a canyoneering route Now, canyoneering is something I want to learn I think it'd be really cool to explore Utah's canyons, and those a lot of times do require wraps. That's the cool way to say rappelling. You say wraps.
Speaker 2:Well, this is a good point.
Speaker 1:We've got to wrap this.
Speaker 2:I love where you took this conversation. That was a really good point. Guide's necessary if it's outside of your wheelhouse.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and so, like for somebody listening to this, maybe running 100 miles around a mountain is outside the wheelhouse, right, maybe it's a stretch, right, and so if you're looking to have that experience, then I think a guide, a guided trip, can be very helpful to. If you're really worried about navigation and that sort of thing, right, but like where we're at, it's like okay, the running's fine, but maybe some of the technicality is too much, right, or you're in a place where no one knows the trails except the guides, which do exist. In this world there is a lot of things that are off the beaten path and, honestly, those are some of the best places to go.
Speaker 2:Okay, I have another quote I'd love to hear your opinion about let's go, and this one definitely speaks to some things you've already mentioned. By the way, I'm loving this, love you. I love you. So they're about community discovery and finding balance between challenge and enjoyment.
Speaker 1:Community discovery and challenge balancing with enjoyment.
Speaker 2:Finding balance between challenge and enjoyment.
Speaker 1:Well. There are a lot of things you already said which is community if you're looking for me for balance between challenge and enjoyment, you're looking at the wrong direction because I will suffer yeah, you will and call it fun at the end. So, and not everyone is like that, like I, I I mean, I think you just have to understand like my attitude towards extreme sports is that, yeah, that's a whole, nother podcast episode.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So I think, I think the real challenge is you have to identify what your level of enjoyment is. And when I come away from, I'm just going to pick a random race, for example, utah 115, and it was all type 3, fun and terrible.
Speaker 2:More challenge than enjoyment.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I still walk away valuing that experience, right, and I still walk away valuing that experience Right, and I still walk away valuing that trip we made. But if you want to call it a run vacation, if you want to call it a vacation, you do have to find that balance, because it can't be all about the challenge, otherwise you're like dead afterwards. Yeah Right, it can't be all about the difficulty, right, when we go out for this 100, like just came back from dark divide. The whole point of being out there was for me to run the hundred, right, and so I was dead afterwards and that was fine. But when you go do two, order Mont Blanc, you know you're looking to have like a joyful experience.
Speaker 2:So let me compare my two runcations. Yeah, let's go With this framework.
Speaker 1:Miranda, why don't you compare your two runcations within this framework?
Speaker 2:I will do so. Soft rock was definitely a balance between challenge and enjoyment. There was a lot of challenge on soft rock right it was a very challenging experience and it was a very enjoyable and enriching and incredible experience where I think I've lived more in those four days than in like six months worth of life. It was so incredible but it was very, very challenging. Tmb, I would say, would be much heavier on the enjoyment side and much lower on the challenge side.
Speaker 1:And which did you enjoy more and which?
Speaker 2:did you enjoy more? Enjoy, I think there was more enjoyment in TMB.
Speaker 1:But enjoyment doesn't equal like you said. It doesn't equal like value Valuable experience.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like I value both experiences equally. But if we're looking at that like balance, tmb just definitely wasn't as challenging. It leaned more into the enjoyment side of things.
Speaker 1:Okay, tell me if I'm wrong, but I'm going to make a.
Speaker 2:Both had community and discovery.
Speaker 1:I'm going to make a statement.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Soft rock was a transformative and turning point experience for you in your overall running.
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely. It was a transformative, life-changing experience.
Speaker 1:It set you on.
Speaker 2:It created me to be the runner that was able to finish high-low.
Speaker 1:Right, it was not just hey, we went and did this thing. It changed your confidence in your abilities 100%.
Speaker 2:I was so amazed with myself. I had no idea that I could run on day four with 80 miles on my legs. It was a complete shift in my confidence. So yeah, absolutely Great, great observation.
Speaker 1:And would you call that still a vacation? It was a vacation yes, a transformative experience such as that.
Speaker 2:It was. It was a runcation.
Speaker 1:And it allowed you to go do TMB, and it was like oh, that was fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah, tmb was like why? Yes, I'll stop and get the ice cream in Switzerland and I have time, I can catch up, it doesn't matter, I have time.
Speaker 1:I'd like to talk about one more style of run cashing. Ooh, okay that we haven't touched on.
Speaker 2:And then I'd like to go through this list and we can go pretty quickly that they have in this article.
Speaker 1:I love lists All right, but I came up with this.
Speaker 2:Let me hear it.
Speaker 1:And I don't think it's one that either of us have done very much, if at all. But I'd like to talk about our friend Eric Lee.
Speaker 2:Eric Lee, friend of the pod.
Speaker 1:Who he's been on the podcast.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And we just ran. He ran the Dark Divide 100K. He got third place. Got third place. He was in a. He was racing down that mountain.
Speaker 2:A battle with the second place guy. They were in a battle to the death battle with the second place guy.
Speaker 1:They were in a battle to the death, and Eric Lee will eventually be back on the pod whenever we organize the ADHD episode. But you guys know what it's like to get four people with ADHD into a room. So Eric Lee has this project where he goes to various. His goal is to go to every national park in the US and do not necessarily an ultra-length run, but but, yes, an ultra-length run. Oh, is it specifically? Yeah, okay, it's specifically an ultra-length run in the park, something between like, if it's possible.
Speaker 2:He says there are some parks where there just isn't enough trail, right.
Speaker 1:But the goal is essentially like a 27 to 50 mile run, depending on the park and whatever makes sense. Like he went down to Big Bend National Park, which is in Texas, and it's a park I've always wanted to go to and there's this wonderful hiking route that's 45, 40 miles around this big mountain in the middle and I've always wanted to run it and he went and ran that. And so he does these trips where he's going across the US and then he's running this big run and it's purely an exploration. It's to see the parks. It's to see the parks, it's to experience the area. He usually brings along a friend or two or somebody from the area that he knows. Is that a runcation? Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2:So think of like Grand Canyon rim to rim to rim. Oh yeah, GC Rim.
Speaker 1:That counts as what Eric Lee is creating.
Speaker 2:He wants an option like that in all these national parks for people to just have a route that exists that they can look at. So we'll link to his blog on the show notes so you all can look at it. But that definitely counts as a runcation. Yeah, absolutely Good input there. It's like ecotourcation. Yeah, absolutely Good input there.
Speaker 1:It's like ecotourism yeah, Plus running Right, but without being and you guys are going to hate me for saying this without being so long that it's super destroying to you. Right, it's only a 50K guys.
Speaker 2:Absolutely counts as a runcation. And yes, I've done the the grand canyon, rim to waterfall to rim twice and you've done rim to rim once and rim to waterfall to rim once yeah, rim to rim to rim is special.
Speaker 1:I I'm just gonna say this if you're out there, you're listening to this and you've never been in the bottom of the Grand Canyon. Put it on the list.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:The North Rim just burned this year, so much thanks to the Dragon Bravo fire. You never know what is going to happen and that canyon is special. Go beyond the North Kaibab trail, like, descend the North Kaibab trail and you you'll see, god, that that place is incredible. Anyway, just saying that, wow, and that's something you can get on a runcation, you can. You can see these places that are so beautiful because you're choosing it based on enjoyment. And so, let's say, when I choose a race, sometimes I choose it because it's hard, like I don't know. I'll just pick a random one out, like Utah 115. Right, and Utah 115 had some beauty, for sure, but it's a stark difference. Uh, deserty beauty, yeah, it's not, it's not the Canyon, it's not Zion, it's not Bryce, you know, or a lot of these national monuments, national monuments in between the national parks can be incredibly beautiful. But when you going on a runcation, if you're, if you're choosing where you're going, you can choose the most beautiful, the most parks that are really. They really speak to you.
Speaker 2:Oh, parks that really speak to you. I love that. Let's do one soon.
Speaker 1:Ooh, yeah, let's do it.
Speaker 2:So can I go through this list and get your opinion? Let's go through the list.
Speaker 1:Summit has calmed down. Stop bothering me.
Speaker 2:So this list is to help set you up for success on selecting your runcation.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And we're going to go through some of this very quickly, because number one is know your fitness limits.
Speaker 1:Well, I think this is a. You were talking about skipping over this item.
Speaker 2:Let's not skip over this item Not skipping, I said, move quickly over some of these.
Speaker 1:We don't need to move quickly through this one. This one needs a whole conversation. Well, yeah, do you feel you were at equal fitness limits? Do you feel that, with all of your partners, across all of?
Speaker 2:your run occasions? Absolutely not. We all had different fitness limits.
Speaker 1:Everyone made, it did it, but I remember Were some people pushing their limits.
Speaker 2:I remember particularly if we're talking about Grand Canyon one, a guy I don't even remember his name to even call him out, but he came on the run and he had never run more than 11 miles on the road before coming to the Grand Canyon. Rim to waterfall to rim, and this run starts out like with a very swoopy downhill.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a very swoopy 10 mile 5,000 foot negative downhill and this idiot was crushing the downhill. It's so if all you had to do was run to the bottom of the canyon every Grand Canyon run would be like that you could just crush that entire downhill. It's like falling with style and you're so fresh, it's amazing. And then you find yourself at the bottom of the canyon and it's 100 degrees and you have to climb out and I was like who let this guy come on this trip?
Speaker 2:And sure enough he was dead last climbing out of that canyon.
Speaker 1:He also ran past the waterfall.
Speaker 2:He did, I mean out of that canyon. He also ran past the waterfall. He did, he kept, he was just a mess, he was a mess. So, yes, know your fitness.
Speaker 1:Have you, have you ever encountered someone on a runcation that was Well, I'd say, typically my experience is because there are more races. Typically my experience is because there are more races and also I just tend to not bind myself to other people's fitness levels. Right Now I will do that locally. I'll go on a run with people who have less or more fitness than me. Of course, we always do, Everyone does that. I mean, lately I've been the one with the least fitness.
Speaker 2:That's when you were on with your wife. I mean, lately I've been the one with the least fitness. That's when you were on with your wife.
Speaker 1:I mean I'm going out with Miranda and Miranda's like crushing me and I'm like you've got to know your fitness levels, babe. But yeah, no, you know, that's one of the awesome things about races. I will say, like people may judge me for doing a lot of races, I think a lot of people in Boulder, a lot of our friends, are like but you don't have to pay to run that Right Like and I they're right Like, you can go run these routes, you can go run these wonderful experiences and you don't have to pay for the race. But one of the things I love about the race is that is the lack of social pressure to stay with people and yeah, that I can hang. I I ran five minutes with kevin smith, our good friend.
Speaker 2:Eventually we'll get him on the pod we definitely will have k smith on the pod.
Speaker 1:K smith, he's a legend total legend 69 years out old and out there crushing you know, you know what he said to me Age is just a number. It's just a number. But he said it in a South African accent so it was hotter, but yeah, I ran five minutes with him and I realized I had never run with him on a race. We shared a lot of experiences together, a lot of great runs, a lot of just telling of experiences. I feel like I know Kevin so well.
Speaker 2:Can I tell a funny story real quick before we move on from where you're going? I would like to finish. Okay, finish, and then I'll tell the story.
Speaker 1:And the point of what I was talking about is that I got to spend those five minutes and then he was moving, then he was moving slower than me and then and then I was like, all right, I will see you later. And if we were on a, if we were on our own experience, our own run, that pressure would be to stay together. But I was feeling good at that point. I wanted to move. Well Prior to that he was ahead of me because he was feeling good earlier in the run.
Speaker 1:Right, we moved at different paces and the race infrastructure, the support, allows you to run with your friends but not really with them. And if you're like me and you like that freedom to move in and out of personal relationships in general, to just move in and out of conversation and in and out of experience, the race gives you that and that's why I tend towards races, cause I I mean if we, if it really comes down to it like I love running with people but I like running with them when I don't have to always run with them. That makes sense. Sorry, any friends who this is news to.
Speaker 2:So yeah, you had a funny story oh well, there was this um very buff guy running uh dark divide. Oh yeah, yeah, and he was ahead of uh k smith most of the time, most of the race yeah, I actually saw him at mile 82 and he was only 20 yards ahead of K Smith. And the end of the race is all downhill and Kevin was just like walking was painful, so he started running and as he passes this very buff, much younger guy, he says sorry, I just can't walk anymore.
Speaker 1:You know, Kevin was saying that he was so genuine.
Speaker 2:He was so genuine with that comment.
Speaker 1:He said his heels were cracking and he so he couldn't. He couldn't like run on his heels, he couldn't walk, and walking of course uses your heels heels so he was like running on the pads of his foot so that guy finished after kevin.
Speaker 2:After being in front of him all day, he finished after him in the last, like you know, mile yeah, oh, that race, that was a, that was a fucking epic race.
Speaker 1:Love to talk about that next time next time on running with Problems.
Speaker 2:Dark Divide. Okay, okay. Next number three Wait did we do number two? Did we do number two? Oh yeah, number two Book a guided tour. We already talked about that.
Speaker 1:We talked about guides. I think, like I don't want to shit on guides, even though I've never used them, I think there would be a great valid way to push your abilities.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you made great points about that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, technical abilities and trail expertise would be great reasons to get a guide, absolutely. But also, just like, if you want to go guideless, fucking trust yourself, go for it, girl.
Speaker 2:Or I also think, like if you don't have a community, that you can do this with book, a guided trip I saw max king did while you were out at torta montblanc.
Speaker 1:max king, personal hero, would love to be in the pod, max, if you're out there. Uh, I actually know max. We we've talked before. Max is an incredible athlete, but so follow him if you're into absolutely incredible 40-year-old athletes still crushing it at the highest level. But Max went on and out and did Tour de Mount Rosa, which is. So there is a race called UTMR Ultra Tour de Mount Rosa. It's like Monte Rosa because it's actually in Switzerland but it's in the Alps. But I believe he also did it with Run the Alps. He did a guided tour for that and he did.
Speaker 1:And Max likes to do a little mix it up, meet people. So I don't want to speak totally for him, but from what I see on his socials he likes to do this and so he was out there with a guided tour with more than just his group, with people he didn't know, and so he was able to join a larger guided group to do this and it was a very similar hundred miles in the Alps experience, but guided, and so I think that's another great way to do this If you don't have a community, if you're out there and you're like listening to John and Miranda is my community and you're like, yeah, my friends aren't going to do this if you don't have a community. If you're out there and you're like listening to john and miranda is my community and you're like, yeah, my friends aren't going to do this with me right, there are ways to get involved.
Speaker 1:I've seen, you know, like there's a who's the guy who ran all the streets in the cities and he has a mezcal sponsor and he ran Transamericana and he made that movie about it.
Speaker 2:I will not know this person.
Speaker 1:Oh my God. Ah somebody in their car is just like banging their steering wheel being like it's this person. Anyway, he's got a great trip that he invites people to join, called like Hut Run, hut Summit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, something to say.
Speaker 1:Do you know who we're talking about?
Speaker 2:Nope, now he's silent. No, okay.
Speaker 1:All right, All right. So, and I know Max organizes an adult trip every year and there are other groups that are organizing trips for various sets of people. So, like, go take a. If you're out there and you want to join one of these things, there are experiences out there where you can join a group of people of a similar fitness level. Like cause, if you just go join like a guided tour, you know you could get people who are much lower fitness level. But if you are specifically inside, like a trail running community or you're doing this through, uh, like some sort of trail running group, larger group, whether that's online or offline, um, I think you can find some great experiences.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Okay. Number three have a training plan, post-recovery plan in place. So a training plan and a recovery plan in place.
Speaker 1:This is basically just like take it seriously, right. Like take it like a race because, well, miranda, miranda, talk about your experiences with Tour de Mont Blanc and training plans.
Speaker 2:Well, I had just gotten done running high and low.
Speaker 1:Did your running mates have good training plans?
Speaker 2:I wrote them a training plan that I that was based off of my training plan for soft rock. Um, the hard thing is for my poor running mates. Well, they're not poor, but they live in San Diego. They're definitely not poor. This is why I'm calling them poor. They live in San Diego, california, so what is impossible for them to do is get those sustained climbs like you would get.
Speaker 1:That's not impossible. It's really hard. It takes driving.
Speaker 2:It's hard, and it's hard to even know what a sustained climb.
Speaker 1:Is I made harrison grade? I know? Because, harrison grade is a sustained eight percent five eleven mile climb all right, shush, all right.
Speaker 2:So I I was them. I was them not too long ago. What it's almost coming up on five years now. So I understand that, knowing what a sustained climb— you think you do hill repeats on Torrey Pines and you're like, oh, I got a good hill in.
Speaker 1:I mean, it is a good hill.
Speaker 2:It is a good hill, but it's short, but Mont Blanc has an eight-mile climb up Bonne Home.
Speaker 1:Bonne Home? No, no, no, bonne Hope.
Speaker 2:You know, I'm going to say it with my accent my accent, though so it's just really challenging to know how you're going to get an eight-mile climb in your training plan. So I wrote a training plan, yes, for them, to help them, and they did do a training plan. But it is hard to know what you don't know.
Speaker 1:When I trained in San Diego and it was only a month, so you know, shoot the messenger it was really helpful actually that I was training with Nick.
Speaker 2:De La Rosa.
Speaker 1:Who had lived in San Diego. Also has been on the pod and he's trained. He's done a lot of crazy vertical stuff right and he's trained in San Diego for a lot of that, and so he knew where to find the hills.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you had such good insider knowledge and that's why I know where the hills are, because Nick told me about them.
Speaker 1:Right, like. I mean, some of the best hills I've ever run are in that county. Wow, they're just far, right. Right, I mean you want to go climb the telescope peak. You've got 5,000 feet straight up off the desert floor, but it takes a two and a half hour drive. Wow, yeah, you know, but the Nate Harrison grade is great. Or even Cuyamaca, like, if you do it right, you can get some good, you know, 2,000 feet vert, so. But you're right, like, if you just go to any random hill around there, the climbs are steep, the climbs are tough, but they're not super long, Right. And you, deep, the climbs are tough, but they're not super long, right, and you just, and when you're in the big mountains, like the alps, the climbs are long, right.
Speaker 1:I was experiencing this with our, with our boy troy shout out to troy meadows, midpacker, pod, right, new friend, new friend, uh, he, uh. He lives in ashville and he was talking about how he has, about how he has big hills where he lives, because it's like really big mountains near Asheville but they're kind of far to drive to. So in town you have shorter hills. His standard hill is like 1,400 feet of vert, so for him going out and doing 4,000 feet straight up. That was a big deal. He doesn't get that every week Right, whereas, like you know, we can go out to the Indian Peaks 45 minutes from here. We get 4,000 feet. Summit is in a licking mood, so if you're hearing licking sounds, that's where that's coming from. I hope everyone is enjoying Summit's input on the podcast.
Speaker 2:He's trying to tell me that he really, really, really likes the podcast. So yes, I've. I mean my. Anyone who wants to go to my strava and see what I did for any of these events is welcome to it's. Um, I don't name any of my runs, so it's all like morning run. But you.
Speaker 1:You have to be a real investigator to find the right run on mirandava. You've got to find that right morning run.
Speaker 2:But yes, I trained for both of my events. One was specifically for soft rock and then the other one was definitely training for high-low, with the intention of being able to recover for TMB.
Speaker 1:All right, let's continue this list.
Speaker 2:Okay, learn to fuel properly Agreed, agreed.
Speaker 1:Like I mean fuel is the constant battle of all ultra runners. And don't get yourself wrong Even if you're never running above 25 miles on any one of these routes, if you're running every day above your effort like normal effort level, you are running an ultra. It's a multi-day ultra and so fuel is super important. And yeah, there's so much good stuff out there these days and hopefully it all matches what it says on the nutrition facts.
Speaker 2:I can't stress the importance of this enough. I don't even know how to stress how important this is. I would say, like some of my bigger days on these runcations, it was very evident those who fueled properly and those who didn't, not based on their physical state, but based on their mental state. At the end of the day it feeds your brain.
Speaker 1:It feeds your brain. Like you are happier when you eat, you are less tired when you eat. Yep, your brain feeds off of carbohydrates. Unless you're fully ketogenic, lucky you. Then it feeds off fats.
Speaker 2:Or unlucky, I don't know.
Speaker 1:But, like, it feeds off fuel in your body, and so you have to provide that fuel if you want to stay happy and stay enjoying it. And this will affect how you enjoy the experience, how well you feel. Now, sometimes it's out of your control, sometimes your stomach rejects it, sometimes you have what I had at Telluride Mountain Run right, like you know. Or if you throw up on the first two miles of the forecast loop, right oh, yeah.
Speaker 1:You know, we've had some experiences recently and you just got to gut those experiences out. Like you deal with the stomach you have, you don't get anybody else's stomach. But if you learn to work with your stomach well over time like you push it, you do those long climbs and you eat well on them and you do those back-to-backs and you try to eat well between them you learn how to fuel on these big experiences. And when it fails and it will eventually fail the only truth in the world is that your nutrition will eventually fail. It will eventually not work for you.
Speaker 2:Then you got to change it.
Speaker 1:Then you change it and you look at other options and you try something else.
Speaker 2:Really, I mean yeah.
Speaker 1:I had a 100 miler, the Ring of Springs, where, like all of the nutrition I brought, I had to throw out at mile 45. And I ran the whole rest of the race on whatever the aid stations had, which is fine A lot of people do that normally but it wasn't my plan, you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, real food stopped working for me at Hilo, the first time real food has ever failed me and I lived off of Precision. And Victus Victus, victus, victus, victus, victus. I want to call it. Why is this word heard? I don't know. I want to call it.
Speaker 1:Victus. It's like that really good movie about the South African soccer team Invictus.
Speaker 2:I lived off of that for the rest of that race.
Speaker 1:Invictus is awful. It's gross. It's throw-up. Awful, it's gross, it's throw up worthy.
Speaker 2:I hate it. It fueled me. Remember. It is not a race, that's number five, yeah.
Speaker 1:It's not a race. I think this is super important, right, like when you're on a race efficient. When I run a race, I am all about efficiency. Anybody who's seen me out on races like they know that I like I take efficiency extremely, like it's very important. Like I have to be doing something that makes my race move forward. Maybe I'm sitting in a chair, but if I'm sitting in that chair, it's because I need to recover so that I can run the next section better. Right, like it. And when I I do not stop for more than I have to and I do not sit down unless it's for a specific purpose, right, like I am always moving forward. Now I may not be moving forward very fast, whatever, but like.
Speaker 1:I am always moving forward and but when I'm not running a race, I don't have to do that. I get to just sit and chill and be like yeah, whatever, if this takes you 15 extra minutes, who cares? Right, like, and I think you should be like that on non-racist, because when you run races, like yeah, do the do the efficiency thing, do the do the I can't stop thing, but like when you're not running races not every run is a fucking race like, sit back, relax, enjoy the company, enjoy the time, enjoy the beauty and that is the approach I took with tmb, which was like, yes, let's stop in these little villages and take an hour for lunch and have the polenta and have the homemade ice cream in Switzerland, and let's do these things to make this an enjoyable adventure.
Speaker 2:And it sounds really fucking fun.
Speaker 1:Yeah Right, because one of the greatest things about running in Europe is that there's a goddamn refugio around every corner to serve you ice cream in the mountains.
Speaker 2:So stop enjoy it. It really made that experience extra special, enjoying those stops along the way.
Speaker 1:Definitely. Is that the end of your list?
Speaker 2:That's the end of my list.
Speaker 1:Okay, so we're 51 and a half minutes into this recording. Are you ready to talk about tour de mont blanc?
Speaker 2:let's talk about tour de mont blanc what do you want to talk about?
Speaker 1:how do you want to talk about this? I mean, we've touched on it a lot we've touched on it a lot.
Speaker 2:So I thought, um, one thing I've not done is taking you through the towns.
Speaker 1:I've went to, yeah, and so I thought I'd take you on the adventure a little bit of just like here's where we were, here's how I like this town, and then here was the route in between and here's how I enjoyed that. Yeah, yeah, all right.
Speaker 2:So let's start with day one, starting from Chamonix To Les Cantamines, Les Cantamines and it is John will be correcting my French the whole way this is my job the whole time.
Speaker 1:And the funny thing is is I'm actually also wrong. I'm just closer.
Speaker 2:He is wrong. Yes, some of them I am right and some of them he is closer. So, anyways, let him do it. I enjoy it. So this was a short day.
Speaker 1:This was day one, and it was a short day little 14 miler yes, little 14 miler you went up and over a bump up and over a little bump, a very technical descent yeah, it was.
Speaker 2:It kind of gave you guys the impression that it was going to be pretty techie yeah yeah, it was like a hard rock style descent off of this little loose and steep, loose and steep, very loose, very, very steep. It was also pouring rain this day.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:It was a very rainy day really cloudy.
Speaker 1:You guys get inundated with like this is what running in the Alps is like.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so it was setting us off on this adventure. I think our spirits were very high, so it wasn't like on the wrong foot or anything.
Speaker 1:It was just— and there was still a lot of anxiety about day two. Day two was the big day, so you know, like—.
Speaker 2:This gave me more anxiety for day two.
Speaker 1:I think it gave a lot of—everyone gave me more anxiety for day two. I think it gave a lot of everyone on your trip anxiety about day two.
Speaker 2:Because while, oh gosh, this sounds really pompous, but the scent wasn't an issue for me.
Speaker 1:You have learned so well how to be a boulder runner. Just shout out to our episode how to Be a Boulder Runner. But also just like shout out to Miranda she was not. She had it inside of her, but it wasn't fully realized when she moved here. And now she can just descend with the best of them, and it's incredible to watch.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the technical descent was not an issue, but it was an issue for my two girlfriends.
Speaker 1:And that's something you get from running a lot of downhills, techie downhills, which most San Diego descents are not techie.
Speaker 2:They just don't have a lot of experience.
Speaker 1:It's all about and we were talking about this with even some of our Denver friends that it is a lot more about reps. Like technical downhill skill is so much about reps and when you live in Boulder, which is all technical and all vertical, you get the reps, but when you live most other places you do not, so you kind of have to go out of your way for it.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:We're just lucky that we get so much great technical running.
Speaker 2:We were. So I was concerned about the descent on day two because day two is our big day. It was 30-mile day, 29-mile day, big day Big. I was very concerned about that. But anyways, we descended down and we got lunch in a little refuge. It was really cute. It had a wood fireplace going and homemade food that I think they grew in their backyard. There were a lot of cows out and about. It was just as adorable as could be in this little mountain. It's not even a mountain town, it was just a little refuge in the mountains.
Speaker 1:I guess it's a refugie. Not a refugio because it's in France.
Speaker 2:And this was not a place you could sleep as well. This was only a place you could eat, like a little cafe at the bottom of the mountain.
Speaker 1:But it's still in the middle. It's still high on the mountain, but it's not at the pass.
Speaker 2:Correct the bottom of the descent. And then, yeah, yeah, the bottom of the descent. And then, so, going into the next day, I mean we descended, we finished our descent into Les Cantamines, les Cantamines and stayed.
Speaker 1:I don't know if you know this, but I took French in middle school.
Speaker 2:Perfect, I've never taken French, so I need the help. So day two, I was a little bit like we need to get an early start and we need to be efficient throughout this day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's a big day. You're doing a 50K essentially 50K big old day 10,000 feet of vert.
Speaker 2:The climb started really quickly and we're headed into. Cormier.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you're going from Le Cantamin to Cormier and you have to go over the biggest climb of the whole route, le Col de Bonhomme.
Speaker 2:Yes, it's an eight-mile climb.
Speaker 1:Does Bonhomme? Does that mean good man? I don't know, what it means, I think it does.
Speaker 2:I think it means a massive climb, this climb is you. This is, I think, one of the highest points of the whole adventure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it is the high point because it it basically goes over a very long shoulder off of mont blanc, whereas most of the others are separated by a valley to Mont Blanc, whereas this is actually literally a connected ridge, and so, yeah, you get up pretty high.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Because Mont Blanc's, you know, massive, massive, they have and a funny thing in so in Europe they have hours. They give you hour estimates on the trails. They don't give you kilometers, they give you hour estimates, so they're like five hours to climb Bonhomme.
Speaker 1:How long did it take you?
Speaker 2:Three and a half.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that drives.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we did great. So we climbed this massive peak, pretty official.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was pretty happy. Bonhomme is a French term meaning good man or fellow.
Speaker 2:Great. And then we planned to stop at the Refugio at the start of the descent of Bonhomme, and we stopped there and there were some French guys Bonhomme, and we stopped there and there were some French guys smoking cigarettes and they're like what do you want? And we're like what do you have? And they're like chocolate cake and walnut cake and we're like we'll take one of each, and like instant coffee, that's what they had, and this was the place that was famed for solving altitude, baking at altitude.
Speaker 1:Yes, and so we got our chocolate cake and we got our almond cake and did they solve coffee instant?
Speaker 2:coffee. Um, I think they have some work to do, um, but you know they're really high up there.
Speaker 1:You got chocolate cake just off the Le Côte d'Abonne.
Speaker 2:Correct and then we start our descent and this was the best descent ever no technicality, Just going down the mountain, Smooth trails, Smooth sailing. So this really helped with my anxiety, which cause I was worried if the descent was like it was on day one. It was basically just a hike, we weren't running at all. But this was not. This was a real descent, like open roads. We could all. We could all run. It was great Nice.
Speaker 1:So everyone ran well got through the. Everyone ran well, got through the big descent got through the big descent you went up and over the next climb the yep.
Speaker 2:we went up and over the next climb. But hold on. I want to like, as I'm running down this descent, I'm wearing my high Lonesome sun shirt and some guy starts going Colorado, colorado, and he goes do you just run High Lonesome? And I was like, yes, I did. And he's like, yeah, I'm from Colorado too. And then my girlfriends were like, yeah, she's just recovering out here two weeks later from High Lonesome, so that was kind of fun.
Speaker 1:Oh, you got to brush your shoulders off. Yeah, I got someone to recognize what I was up to Brush your shoulders off.
Speaker 2:We got lunch at the bottom of the descent. We were pretty quick about it because I was again still worried.
Speaker 1:So I mean this day took a lot of time, so you were more in the efficiency race mode.
Speaker 2:Correct and this day took a lot of time. So you were more in the efficiency race mode, correct, and we ended up taking a shuttle at that point, because you have to either run a road or you can take a shuttle.
Speaker 2:And so you opted for the shuttle. We opted for the shuttle, which cut off a 5K to take us back to the trail, and it took us to the trail, the trail, and it took us to the trail and from there we began another climb, and not much to report after that climb. We were able to head down to Cormier, which, at this point, I opted for us to take a gondola the final two miles into Cormier, which, at this point, I opted for us to take a gondola the final two miles into Cormier. So we ended up taking a gondola into Cormier and the day ended up being 25 miles instead of 30.
Speaker 1:Because you had a shuttle.
Speaker 2:Because we had the shuttle and then the gondola Dropped my phone.
Speaker 1:And this wouldn't be the last time you took a gondola.
Speaker 2:No, wouldn't be the last time, but this is what a runcation is all about. You make these adjustments that add to the experience. That's how I felt. It's like the gondola was adding to the experience. Not running a road with no shoulder added to the experience. It didn't take away from the experience, it added to it. So those were great adjustments that I felt made the day better.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think it speaks to our earlier conversation about you. Got to make this enjoyable.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And since downhills were going to be a little bit of an issue, like if it were you and me, maybe we'd take the gondola, but most likely we're like I would rather run this.
Speaker 2:We probably would have run, we probably would have taken the gondola on the last day but not on this day.
Speaker 1:Because we love running downhills.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and because the gondola on the last day just had the most epic views and so it was like let's get those views Right. And so it was like let's get those views Right.
Speaker 1:But you got to adjust it based on your crew and your experience. So how was Courmayeur? I hear Courmayeur is awesome.
Speaker 2:I loved that little place. It was so beautiful. It was just nestled in between mountains on every side. I really didn't explore these towns very much, so I can't tell you much about them other than like what they look like, because that's all I got a taste of is like what everything looked like as I'm running through and around, and it was beautiful. I would want to go back to Cormier. Let's go back to Cormier. Let's do it. Let's do it. Okay, let me get us out of Cormier now. Where are we going now? We're headed to La Folie.
Speaker 2:La Folie, we are headed to Switzerland my friends, la Folie, and this was a fun day Because you guys were through the crux. Through the crux, we were feeling good, feeling excited. Running out of Cormier was pretty amazing. Guided running out of Cormier was pretty amazing. Oh, and I have to say, switzerland suddenly has really great markings, and so does Italy. But let me mention this, france does not. So, france, you have to know where you're headed next, and that doesn't mean, like I knew, I was headed to Les Cantamines, but there are a lot of places in between that that I'm headed. So I have to keep knowing where I'm headed in between that.
Speaker 2:Like all the, all the intermediate Correct and then I have to follow the signs to head that way. Once you hit Italy and Switzerland, the trails are marked UTMB or TMB sorry, tmb this way. And they have arrows and they have their own green color.
Speaker 1:So it's like flagged here's UTMB, here's TMB.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and it's like painted on the rocks and it's like on every street sign, it's like really well marked.
Speaker 1:But not in France. Not in France.
Speaker 2:The second you get into France, not in France.
Speaker 1:So France, so French of them.
Speaker 2:But in Italy and Switzerland. Yes, so we're headed out of Italy into Switzerland to La Follie. This was a big day. I mean they're all big at this point.
Speaker 1:They're not the 50K, but they're still fucking big right.
Speaker 2:They're still big.
Speaker 1:There's still big climbs in this day there was actually a lot of running running on this day yes, it was beautiful, absolutely epic, absolutely beautiful.
Speaker 2:Running into switzerland was so amazing. This is where we got the ice cream. Soon as we entered switzerland, there was a little a farm stand that had fresh ice cream, homemade ice cream from alpine cows, which the alpine cows are everywhere, and so Laura and I stopped and got the ice cream. It was the best ice cream I've ever had in my entire life. It is definitely a high point of this run. And then we saw some Americans as we're heading down from the farm stands.
Speaker 1:Were they wearing like American flag shirts? They?
Speaker 2:were talking like Americans and they got scared Were they saying things like laughily. They got scared of the cows. They were scared to run through the cows and you had to run through the cows.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's cows there, just in the way.
Speaker 2:And so I just like I didn't say a word to them. I just passed them and kept running through the cows and they're like, oh well, she just went for it. And then Laura and Debra follow me and off we go. We did get a little delirious towards the end of this run into Lawfully.
Speaker 1:Yeah, how so.
Speaker 2:Laura and I started making up songs. We were singing Lawfully all we want is a Negroni and a hot bartender. That was our song. Then we sang different songs on the way out of it. Lawfully was not our favorite.
Speaker 1:Ah no, this was the night you were in like a hostel.
Speaker 2:We ended up in a hostel in Lawfully, yes. This sounds like the start of like a detective novel, or something, so we needed to share a bathroom with everybody, and we were in a bunk bedroom. We did buy out the whole room, though, so we were the only people in the room, so that was the one highlight of that, but our room also had an overlook over the bar hangout area, so it was very, very noisy but too stuffy to keep the window closed. It was our roughest night, oh lawfully.
Speaker 2:Okay, so then we head out of lawfully in the morning and we're headed to Trient.
Speaker 1:Trient.
Speaker 2:Trient.
Speaker 1:They say Trient.
Speaker 2:It's a Swiss town, it's not French.
Speaker 1:But you get to go through Champs-Élysées.
Speaker 2:We do. We go through Champs-Élysées yes, so that was so cool because we're running. We are running in the morning, at 8 am, which is not that early, but for some reason everybody's asleep which is not that early, but for some reason everybody's asleep. So we're running through all these little villages, all these Swiss villages, which the architecture looks completely different than it did in France and Italy, which is very old, very old architecture. This is very new, like think log cabin, and very whimsical, like, for example, when you enter the forest there are little animals carved into all of the trees. Oh, interesting, it's very whimsical, very adorable. It was super magical running through those sleepy villages, One of the highlights of the trip.
Speaker 2:And we are running. At this point we're very, our legs are good, we're running, we're moving, and at one point we're running through these raspberry fields and all of a sudden I look over and this like man that looks like Bob Marley is looking up at me picking raspberries and I'm like, did I just like see a spirit? Was that real? And I'm like this is early morning, it's very misty, it's it is very magical feeling. So I did feel like I saw a spirit, but the other girl saw him too, so he was there, so everyone saw the spirit.
Speaker 1:The spirit was there the spirit of Bob Marley.
Speaker 2:Yes, picking raspberries in the forests of Treant. Well, this was before Treant.
Speaker 1:Lawfully.
Speaker 2:On the way to Treant? Yes, lawfully, so that was super cool. We did lose a girl when we headed into Champagne Lock.
Speaker 1:You know, I hate when that happens.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she ended up taking a shuttle. That's. The cool thing about this runcation, though, is that it's so civilized. People can cut it short. You can go with people with varying abilities, and people can cut it short if necessary.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you got to run the whole thing with Laura.
Speaker 2:Yes, laura continued on. Deborah took a shuttle or taxi to our destination, nice, and Laura and I finished. We needed to get to Trient by 4.30 pm because we had a—this is the only place we had to take a taxi to our hotel. Every other place we ran directly to our hotel door.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because we were staying in like—.
Speaker 2:We were staying in France, actually, the only place we had to take a taxi to our hotel. Every other place we ran directly to our hotel door. We were staying in France actually.
Speaker 1:So we had to take a taxi from Switzerland back into France to stay in another place.
Speaker 2:I forget the town you're staying in. It starts with an A. Yeah, it did start with an.
Speaker 1:A Doesn't matter, not important to the story.
Speaker 2:Just slept there and then from Trient into Chamonix, Chamonix the next day.
Speaker 1:Like in Ultra Tour de Mont Blanc, the race, they go to Valorcine in between, but y'all just went straight for Chamonix. You had to do two more bumps, two last bumps.
Speaker 2:We had two last bumps. How was the final day? Okay? So I didn't, like my crew was a little haggard and I had read ways to cut it short because I was like, in case anyone needs to cut it short, let's like read about ways to cut it short.
Speaker 1:And we're just kind of— when you say you read about ways to cut it short. Is this something that Run the Alps? The company you booked through provided Right. Yes, so they provided like detailed instructions on how to modify it. Correct so even though you weren't on a guided tour, you had a lot of guide knowledge.
Speaker 2:Yes, which was really helpful. So we're basically bypassing all these roads that lead directly to Chamonix and running up the harder sections. So I'm like I'm not telling these girls that.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, the roads are in the valley and you're climbing the mountain instead. Correct, because you'd rather climb the mountain.
Speaker 2:Because I wanted to climb the mountain. So I was like, hey, like there. I was like to my ladies, I was like, hey, there are ways to cut this short, but if you can just make it to the very end, we can take a gondola down the final descent into Chamonix.
Speaker 1:So you gave them a shorter goal.
Speaker 2:So I gave them a shorter goal. Everybody loved the gondola into Cormier, so everybody was into that. So off we went. This was our only day where we had to eat lunch. That was trail food.
Speaker 2:Every other day we stopped in gorgeous little cafes and refugios and had local food. That was amazing. This day the town was under construction that we went to the cafe, the town, the whatever it was supposed to be was totally under construction and failed us with both water and food. So we were like, whew, we might not her water's running a little low for this final climb, but all right, and we're eating bars for lunch. So that was our only day of struggle and I use quotes for that. And then, finishing that climb, there was a cafe at the top where Laura and I again got ice cream and we got a sparkling water.
Speaker 1:I'm seeing a pattern here.
Speaker 2:We saw a herd of ibex.
Speaker 1:Ooh.
Speaker 2:A whole herd of ibex, which is a local deer type thing. Antelope Antelope deer type thing, yeah.
Speaker 1:Big horns right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then we made it to our gondola and gondola it was a beautiful gondola ride on into Chamonix.
Speaker 1:That was it.
Speaker 2:That's the runcation in a nutshell Totally long walk.
Speaker 1:Can you talk a little bit about Run the Alps and working with them? The company.
Speaker 2:Yeah, the company Run the Alps. I would highly recommend it. They are pricey so I do preface it with. They are a little bit more pricey than most of the other running tours because they have a lot of different options. They provide a lot of logistical support so they moved our bags from place to place.
Speaker 1:Well, they got a service to do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, taxis moved our bags from place to place.
Speaker 1:They arranged our taxi in Trient to our they arranged almost everything from the day before you started to the day after you ended, correct?
Speaker 2:They did not arrange our flights and they did not arrange our stay in Annecy, which was two days before our adventure.
Speaker 1:That was like prior Correct, but they like. From the day before you started running to the day after you stopped running, every taxi, every hotel, almost every meal was either organized, booked or gave you a bunch of information about where to do it.
Speaker 2:Correct, it was great. I mean, the information was to me overwhelming until I began the adventure. And once I began the adventure, it was the perfect information to make that day enjoyable Every day. It was my job to look over the logistics and pick where we were going to have lunch.
Speaker 1:I'm so proud of you.
Speaker 2:Thanks, love. This is not my forte.
Speaker 1:Well, I think you're actually extremely good at logistics, Even if you say it's not your forte. Just something maybe is a challenge for you, but you're very good at.
Speaker 2:Thank you, gorgeous. I did a great job on this trip, so it did boost my confidence quite a bit.
Speaker 1:Cheers to you.
Speaker 2:We had zero navigational errors. The only slightly challenging place was getting into Law Fully, which Laura and I were actually fine. We knew where we were going, we knew what we were doing. It was just a little further than we thought. We thought it was going to be a 19-mile day. It was a 21-mile day. Whatever. You know, give or take a few miles.
Speaker 1:Mack would be fuming if you made a 19-mile day a 21-mile day.
Speaker 2:She would do that to me all the time and yet she would be fuming if I did it. And so, yeah, it was in planning the lunches. I did a great job with all of that, except for on our final day, which I had no way of knowing, that place was under construction, like these places don't have websites, so it's not like you go, you can go to a website and like double check that it's open. Like no, there's no website in existence.
Speaker 1:You don't think they have cell phone service.
Speaker 2:Right, so it's not. It was a reasonable error to make yeah.
Speaker 1:Right, well, any other thoughts, conclusions, things you want to say about your trip? Did you?
Speaker 2:like it. Oh, 10 out of 10 would recommend. And my only thought to conclude this whole episode, this whole podcast, is runcations are the way to go. It is an incredible bonding experience with the people you go with. It's just a way to experience the landscape and to cover so much ground that is unique and, to use the word you used earlier, transformative and, to use the word you used earlier, transformative.
Speaker 1:Now I want you to think of me as being on one knee in front of you right now and I'm going to say will you go on a run kitchen with me? A little run, a little tour run thing.
Speaker 2:Abso-fucking-lutely.
Speaker 1:Because we've never done that.
Speaker 2:We have never done one like that, that, and now you're like a pro. Yeah, let's do one together and I've never done one let's plan one and share it with the pod would everyone on the podcast like that I think they're saying yes, I think they said yes, okay, summit.
Speaker 1:Summit said yes, he was like I'll come with you guys. I like adventure.
Speaker 2:He'd make it five miles.
Speaker 1:Less than that. Oh, this has been a good episode, Miranda. We'd like to end our episodes by asking our primary guest and since you ran Tour de Mont Blanc, you were the primary guest to share a piece of advice. Now, you shared a lot of pieces of advice, so I'll just put you on a spot and ask for another.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is pretty easy. Go on a runcation, plan one and make it happen. That's all you got to do. Find a group of people who you want to spend four or five days with running. Plan a runcation. Make it happen. You won't regret it. Be open to the experience, be open to how it changes you and how it shapes you, and enjoy the journey.
Speaker 1:Well said. Thank you to all the listeners who made it this far. We appreciate you and we'll see you next time on Running With Problems.