SPEAKER_02: 0:10

Hello and welcome to Running with Problems. My name is John Eisen.

SPEAKER_06: 0:15

And I'm Miranda Williamson.

SPEAKER_02: 0:16

Running with Problems is a podcast with the lives of runners and the problems they inevitably face. Today in the podcast, we have the transcontinental record holder Pete Kostlinek. But before we get to that, Miranda, how are you doing?

SPEAKER_06: 0:29

I'm doing well. Yeah. Um, birthday celebrations are over. Ran at Golden Gate Canyon Park this weekend again, and then joined you for part of the Skyline.

SPEAKER_02: 0:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 0:44

How are you doing?

SPEAKER_02: 0:45

I'm doing I'm doing well, getting back into running. I did my tenth skyline in my skyline project. Uh, the skyline is continues to be hard, but this one was the first one that I didn't get overheated on since May, maybe?

SPEAKER_05: 1:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 1:04

Yeah. So I've done one every month since January. Technically, I also did one in the previous December, but that doesn't count as part of the project. The project is a calendar year, 12 months, 12 skylines, one in each month. Uh, it forces me to do skylines in the part of the year that I don't like, which is the summer, which I've already completed. Thank fucking God.

SPEAKER_06: 1:24

And will you explain to our listeners what the skyline is?

SPEAKER_02: 1:28

Oh, yeah. Skyline is a route in Boulder that connects the five tallest peaks in Boulder that are they're all publicly accessible, which is amazing. One of the very lucky things that we have here in Boulder, where the the Boulder City charter protects open space and mountain parks. So you're able to reach the five tallest peaks on on system trails. You don't have to use, well, there is, I guess, flagstaff technically, the system trails don't reach the peak. So there's like a little social trail you can take up there. Uh, but it's not explicitly closed, so it's still okay. Uh still legal. Uh, yeah, it's really, really cool. It's about 16 to 18 miles, depending on route choice, and 5,500 to 6,000 vertical feet. Uh, it takes quite a bit of time. It's pretty technical. Uh, most of the trails up there are very technical. One of the climbs in the northbound direction, which I typically are yeah, northbound, which I typically run, are uh are very technical. But one climb is like not technical, and I'm like, that's like the worst for me. I'm uh I like the technical stuff a lot better. I just run faster on it than uh than I do over non-technical things, as as if that makes any sense to anybody, but it's just how I work.

SPEAKER_06: 2:53

Which is your favorite peak?

SPEAKER_02: 2:55

Uh, it's gotta be Bear Peak. Bear Peak. Yeah, it's ours. We got married up there. You came up with me on Bear on uh Sunday, and it was really nice to be up there with you. And then I went ahead and finished the rest of the skyline tagging South Boulder Peak, Green Mountain, Flagstaff Mountain, and Mount Sinitas to finish it up. Took me a little longer than normal, about six hours and 24 minutes this time. Uh, I haven't run very much in the last six or seven weeks, so that probably makes some sense. And uh yeah, I'm looking forward to only two more skylines left. I think I'm gonna do the next one. Uh, next month is my birthday month. So I'm gonna probably try to do the skyline on my birthday, which would be fun. And then for the final one, I'll try to invite some people out. Usually I do it by myself, but it'll be fun to have some people along for the last one. I'd say this project has definitely graded on me. It's been kind of tough during like a year where I've done so many races to also have this skyline project forcing me to do a big weekend day. Let's say that like I had to find a weekend in in a month every single month. And so, like for I had in May, I had a big race, and I had to find a weekend day that wasn't too close to the race before it, and after it, I didn't want to race, right? I think the worst example was probably after Dark Divide in September. I did the skyline two weeks after Dark Divide, and I was dying on it. Like I clearly just needed more recovery time, but I had to push myself to do it because it was the only weekend I had. Other the other ones I would have been out of town. So finding that available weekend day and that not interfering with training or another or a race recovery, that turned out to be the hardest part. But now that all the races are done for the year, it's kind of just smooth sailing. Pick the best day and uh run in my favorite season to run skylines. Well, I mean, I say I was about to say fall is my favorite season to run skylines. Skylines are the are best in the fall because you run them the fastest. There's not very much snow on the ground. It's nice weather. But I actually probably my favorite time is spring. I like it when there's snow and ice.

SPEAKER_06: 5:21

Yeah. What advice would you give to someone with a similar project that has a long duration to it, a year-long duration?

SPEAKER_02: 5:32

Uh I don't know what the advice I would give. I think it just requires dedication and consistency. Um yeah, there were months that I was really not looking forward to that skyline for whatever reason, despite the fact that I love this trail. Like I love running the skyline. I there's a spot, there's a there's a multiple stop spots on it where I just get this wholehearted like joyfulness of being out on that adventure. The I I know exactly where they are. It's the views that I take in. I take a picture at the same spot every time. Anyway, with that all said, it's still war on me and and it was difficult to start. But I think you just have to be, if you're gonna do the project, if you're if you're gonna go out and have a project that lasts a year or requires consistent effort in changing conditions, you just you just have to be dedicated to it. You have to be okay with, well, despite the fact that I love this thing, I'm actually gonna not like it.

SPEAKER_06: 6:48

Maybe by the end of this, I won't love it as much as I did at the beginning.

SPEAKER_02: 6:52

Yeah. I don't think that's true for me. I think I still love the skyline after December, but I may not have loved it Sunday morning.

SPEAKER_06: 7:02

Right. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_02: 7:03

But by the time Sunday afternoon came, I was like, yeah, that was good.

SPEAKER_06: 7:06

Yeah, you had a good time. So I picked you up. I brought you your lemonade.

SPEAKER_02: 7:11

Thank you. You're welcome. Always nice. Otherwise, I have to take the bus back. It takes an extra hour. It's nicer to not have to ride the bus all sweaty.

SPEAKER_06: 7:20

I think I've picked you up for the vast majority of these this year.

SPEAKER_02: 7:23

You have. You're very kind. Yeah, I guess that's the advice I would give. Uh, get a really supportive wife.

SPEAKER_06: 7:33

I like that advice.

SPEAKER_02: 7:35

It it has helped me tremendously.

SPEAKER_06: 7:37

Well, who do we have on the pod today?

SPEAKER_02: 7:39

Keith Kostelnik is uh I mean an extremely experienced ultra runner. It's been running for a long, long time now, but he's still quite young.

SPEAKER_06: 7:52

He is. We got him on the pod. He's uh uh Aaron, who was on the pod talking about the LA freeway.

SPEAKER_02: 8:00

He talked about Pete Kostelnik at the end of his episode.

SPEAKER_06: 8:03

Correct.

SPEAKER_02: 8:03

And we were like, and I and I freaked out because I know who Pete Colin Kostelnik is the is the transcontinental record holder. He has run across the country from San Francisco to New York, or maybe it was the other way around. I can't remember. Faster than anybody else.

SPEAKER_06: 8:22

So Aaron's lovely fiance connected us to Pete. And we got him on the pod for you all.

SPEAKER_02: 8:29

And they knew each other because they run the same race in Kansas a lot. Gosh, I forget the name. They meant I'm sure we mentioned it during the episode. I'm sure. I'm sure we do. Yes. And talking to Pete was really cool. We got to hear about all of his incredible adventures. Well, I guess not all of them. We heard about a bunch of them.

SPEAKER_06: 8:50

Right. We could only we could only scrape the surface with Pete.

SPEAKER_02: 8:54

The way he talked about these uh super endurance efforts, I don't know what to call them, month-long efforts, right? So he's done multiple month-long efforts. He talked about them l the same way I talk about a hundred, or that somebody else might talk about a 50 miler, or the way West plate, when we had Wes on, the way Wes talked about a 200, right? He talked about these month-long efforts, multi-week efforts, in a very matter-of-fact, well-understood, well, this is just what it takes away. And that was really remarkable to me that like it doesn't matter what you want to be good at. It doesn't matter how big that is. Eventually, you just get to the same point where you're just like, How can I improve this little aspect of it? Like, how can I, how can I take this chunk away? Like it never, like you never really, you know, master the distance. Yeah, it doesn't matter the distance.

SPEAKER_06: 9:58

You're always working on something, improving something.

SPEAKER_02: 10:01

So that was really cool. What else did you take away?

SPEAKER_06: 10:03

I really loved how he talked about your body adapting to the experience.

SPEAKER_02: 10:09

That was a cool conversation, yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 10:11

That was I won't go into it too much here because I think we go into it enough in the actual podcast because I was really fascinated by that aspect of it and I feel like really relate to it.

SPEAKER_02: 10:22

I feel like we could talk about that some more with different guests. Um, John Kelly, if you ever want to be on the podcast, I'd love to talk to you. I enjoyed hearing about his unsupported transcontinental record, or not a record, but his unsupported transcontinental run from Alaska to Florida, the longest run you could make across the US, not the continental US, the including Alaska, all the way diagonally across down to Florida. That was incredible to just even think about. I really enjoy talking about the uh logistical challenges, the the stroller he had to push. Uh the stories were so funny.

SPEAKER_06: 11:13

So funny, so amazing. I did want to call out, though, he talks about how um nice everyone was to him everywhere he went. I do want to call out he is uh good-looking white man.

SPEAKER_02: 11:26

Yeah, but he's he would have been a sweaty, good-looking white man, right? You know?

SPEAKER_06: 11:32

I don't know. A girl likes a sweaty man.

SPEAKER_02: 11:35

There you go, guys. Just need to get sweaty. And yeah, I think let's get into it. Uh, hope you guys enjoy it. Uh we're gonna we have some great episodes coming up. We've really we've we've leveled up our setup a little bit more. We're constantly trying to improve on the back end, how we handle these interviews, how we get more great content for y'all. So got some really fun things lined up. If you hear this in the next day or two after we release it, we are going to be interviewing my coach on the podcast. And if you have any coaching questions for Mark Marzin, send them in at running with problems on Instagram, DM us, or podcast at runningwithproblems.run is our email. And I think that's it.

SPEAKER_06: 12:27

Yeah. The types of questions we like are the are not like super detailed and intricate to yourself, but like questions like how do I find a good coach? When do I know uh when it's a good time to find a good coach? That those types of questions that I'm really excited to ask.

SPEAKER_02: 12:44

Like, how do you construct a running season?

SPEAKER_06: 12:46

Right.

SPEAKER_02: 12:47

What are the building blocks of a running season?

SPEAKER_06: 12:50

Yeah. How do I pick an event that fits my capabilities and my level? Those types of things.

SPEAKER_02: 12:55

How do I change my life so that I can be a hundred-mile ultrarunner?

SPEAKER_06: 12:59

Ooh.

SPEAKER_02: 13:01

All right, without further ado, Pete Kostelnik. Here y'all go.

SPEAKER_06: 13:05

Enjoy. Hi, Pete. Welcome to the pod.

SPEAKER_00: 13:16

Hey guys, thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_06: 13:19

So, Pete, where are you from?

SPEAKER_00: 13:23

Uh all over, kind of. Uh I uh I live it right now, I uh you know, and and hopefully the rest of my life live in uh Flagstaff, Arizona. Um but I um grew up in the Midwest, kind of been all over the Midwest. Uh and grew up in uh spent the first 21 years of my life in Iowa, um, lived in Kansas City, lived in Nebraska, which is actually where I'm at for work right now. Um lived in Hannibal, Missouri, Cleveland, um, Phoenix, and now Flagstaff. So yeah, it's uh it's been a journey.

SPEAKER_06: 13:59

Do you know John Fagavarisi?

SPEAKER_00: 14:02

Yes, yeah. I actually I saw him at a race just a couple weeks ago down in Phoenix. Um I haven't run into him a whole lot, but yeah, he lives in Flagstaff as well.

SPEAKER_06: 14:12

He does, he's a friend of ours, friend of the pod. We met him. He's a legend. I know.

SPEAKER_00: 14:18

Such a legend.

SPEAKER_06: 14:19

John was running Barclay and he was crewing uh John Kelly, and I got to uh become friends with him.

SPEAKER_00: 14:26

Another legend.

SPEAKER_01: 14:27

Very cool. Oh yeah. Were you running stagecoach? Or were we just hanging out?

SPEAKER_00: 14:33

Um, no, this was this was Jackrabbit Jubilee. Jackrabbit, okay. It was a terrible rate it was like I don't do well in humidity, and it was a very, very humid, hot uh that surprises me.

SPEAKER_06: 14:48

I was going to ask you what um attracts you to all of these hot races?

SPEAKER_00: 14:54

Uh if it's I I do really well in dry heat um because I I sweat more than anyone I've ever met. So if you sweat a lot, it works really well in dry heat because you know you just have all this like cooling and evaporating going on. But then on the other side of the coin, if it's a humid uh climate, your sweat just doesn't go anywhere, and then you just kind of slowly die.

SPEAKER_05: 15:19

Oh, like so that's why I'll never live in Florida.

SPEAKER_02: 15:23

Oh yeah, story of my life, just like slowly dying in the heat on every ultra, pretty much. The last one was humid, and yeah, it was it was you just gotta get to the night, but then in the night was still humid, and then yeah, that's the problem with yeah, the that I had a jackrabbit jubilee.

SPEAKER_00: 15:41

It's like a night race, and I was like, oh, it'll cool off, and then it just kept getting more and more humid.

SPEAKER_04: 15:46

That was my experience of Dark Divide just a few weeks ago. Ah just humid all night.

SPEAKER_02: 15:54

So, what brought you to Flagstaff?

SPEAKER_00: 15:56

Uh my my wife, um, so I I I lived in Phoenix for a couple of years, and you know, I just wanted to live out in the desert. And um, I met my now wife uh about three and a half years ago.

SPEAKER_06: 16:09

And um Nikki, that's her name, Ray?

SPEAKER_00: 16:12

Uh Lindsay, yeah. And uh she she uh she you know has has two kids, and I guess that makes me a stepdad. Don't don't tell them that um and yeah, so then I um I moved up to Flagstaff uh to to be with them, and now we all all live together up there.

SPEAKER_06: 16:33

And when did you begin your ultra running journey?

SPEAKER_00: 16:39

Um see, it would have been when I lived in Kansas City. Um in 20, I think it was 2011. Um it was kind of it was um like every good decision over a few beers with some friends, and there was this race called uh brew to brew.

SPEAKER_06: 16:58

And so I saw that on your ultra sign up.

SPEAKER_00: 17:02

Yeah. And I don't know the race has kind of changed over the years. I think now it it starts at like not a beer brewery, but like a coffee place. Um, but back then it started at um what's the the brewery in uh Kansas City? Uh Boulevard. And so you start a Boulevard Brewery, and then you finish at Free State Brewery in uh Lawrence, Kansas. And it's not like it's not like a it's kind of an arbitrary distance, it kind of changes every year, I I think. Um it's usually like 42 to 46 miles, depending on the year. Um and it's like a relay, but you can do uh you can be your own relay team, and so I decided it was kind of like a dare from a few friends. Um and uh I signed up and I did it, and I it went way better than I thought it would. So um then I just kind of got the the bug. What's that?

SPEAKER_03: 17:58

Were you hooked?

SPEAKER_00: 17:59

Oh yeah, absolutely. Yep. Uh then I did my first hundred miler later that year. So I I went straight from like um a 44-mile race, road race basically, to a hundred-mile trail race, uh, down in the Ozarks, the Ozark 100. And that beat me up really bad. Um, you know, I I think I I went down there by myself without a crew, and it's like a five-hour drive each way from Kansas City, not nowhere close. And I I just it took me, I think, 28 hours to finish that race, and it felt like I had a golf ball behind um one of my knees by the finish. And I just remember I don't know how I got back to Kansas City, but um I was basically on like bed rest for like three days. I just like I could not physically even like walk to the fridge because I was so sore and dead. It just yeah. So jumped in the yeah, jump definitely jumped in the the deep end on on that race, but yeah, I just you know I I've uh I think now 40 some hundred plus mile races later, I just uh I love it and I I love doing it. I and I love all every format really, except for backyards. I don't I don't really do backyard races, but I will do any any terrain. You know, I do better on the more flat tame courses than the the crazy gnarly courses, but uh I love love love all of it.

SPEAKER_06: 19:27

I just listened to a podcast with you and you were talking about your hatred for backyards.

SPEAKER_00: 19:34

I just I I think it would bring out the worst in me. Like I would start like trying to get people to DNF and you know are you quite competitive? I am very competitive, and I think that's why I just it would be very hard for me because I and I'm also um I I always tend to get to a point in every race where like I have a low, and I think I would just have too I don't I would have too much of a low trying to do a backyard where there would be like one bad hour that I don't get back out and start. Um so I think that would that's like my issue, but you never know. Maybe I'll I'll give it give it a try one of these days. We gave it a try.

SPEAKER_06: 20:14

We did.

SPEAKER_00: 20:14

It was rough.

SPEAKER_02: 20:15

How'd it go for you guys? It was rough.

SPEAKER_06: 20:18

I had a good time-ish. Um, but I had a goal. I wanted to do my birthday miles. So I was turning 41, so I wanted to do my birthday miles, and I said I liked having that goal, but at about um eight laps, I wanted to quit. Even though every single lap I was doing the identical time 48 to 50 minutes, 48 to 50 minutes, but I like just had that mental block where I was bored. I was so bored of doing laps. And I told John, I was like, I think I'm done. And he looked at me and he was like, You're gonna have to run a lot slower than that if you want to quit.

SPEAKER_03: 20:58

I mean, I mean, yeah, I was barely hanging on.

SPEAKER_02: 21:01

I was coming back from like a bad injury where I hadn't run in months. And I don't know, I had these expectations about myself that I would be able to go for 24 hours, and it was a little hilly of a course, and at altitude.

SPEAKER_06: 21:14

And at altitude.

SPEAKER_02: 21:15

So I mean, I think the winter was 24 hours or 25. So like it wasn't okay, it wasn't your typical like 30 to 40 local backyard, 30 to 40 yard.

SPEAKER_01: 21:25

Um and yeah, I don't know, three or four yards in. I was like, oh no, this is not going well. So some days you just know that, right? Yeah. And yeah, yeah. I just hung on to make her birthday miles, and that was it. Nice.

SPEAKER_00: 21:40

Yeah, I guess I kind of halfway did one. It was the quarantine one. So it was Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 21:46

And I I had like a yeah, it was crazy.

SPEAKER_00: 21:49

It was the one that Wardian, I was talking to a friend about this earlier today. It was the one that Wardian, like, I think it he got he went like three days, I want to say. And then there was a guy from the Czech Republic, um, a really good ultra runner there. He I can't remember um his name, but he was doing it on treadmill. And so so Wardian was like doing it in his like neighborhood, and then this is like the the peak of COVID, but I just I did like 24 hours and I was good. I was just like, I'm not not gonna it was too painful for me because it was like you sit down for 10 minutes and you try getting back up, and I I just don't operate that way.

SPEAKER_01: 22:25

That was such a moment in time, like get in 300 ultra runners, everybody from like novice to expert, an elite, a bunch of different Zoom calls calls. Yeah, they had multiple Zoom calls, right? Yeah, organize it because there were too many people for a zoom call, and they're all running 4.166, their own 4.166.

SPEAKER_06: 22:49

But you're on a zoom, like with yeah, oh yeah, then yeah, then you come back into the zoom.

SPEAKER_00: 22:54

Yeah, and it was like I remember we had like it was like a competition who could get back to the zoom call the quickest, the first few.

SPEAKER_01: 23:02

That was gosh, you just reminded me.

SPEAKER_00: 23:04

Gosh, yeah, it was a very strange time in history.

SPEAKER_06: 23:10

Well, Pete, I'm really curious about this transition from like running 40 miles to a hundred, because I'm very much a dip my toe in. Like I ran my first half marathon, then my first marathon, and then like several years later, my first 50k, then several years later my second 50k, and just this year ran my first 100. So I'm very much a uh like climb a little ladder. Okay, so tell me about a little bit about the mindset to go from 40 miles to 100. Do you have an addictive personality? Do you have a type A personality? Like what is driving you in that direction?

SPEAKER_00: 23:53

Uh definitely I don't probably not as much type A, but more, yeah, the addictive uh to you know, in good and bad ways, probably. But um, yeah, that that was like I I couldn't get enough of it. And um so in between doing that first 40-mile race in from Kansas City to Lawrence and then doing um the Ozark 100, a few things happened. I so I I went out kind of on a last second, which is kind of funny because now I live in Flagstaff, um, but I did like a last second like guy's uh weekend trip over Memorial Day from Kansas City to the Grand Canyon. And my two friends that I went out there with, they they did they didn't do the whole rim to rim to rim with me, but I I did do it and I it destroyed me. And so um that was like quite an experience because I've now I've done it a few more times, and I I usually just kind of do it for fun. Um and so that was like one like stepping stone. So also doing the uh Pikes Peak Marathon that year.

SPEAKER_06: 25:01

Um no, I just ran Pikes Peak this weekend.

SPEAKER_00: 25:05

You did?

SPEAKER_06: 25:06

Yeah. Not the not the actual marathon, just the mountain.

SPEAKER_00: 25:10

Yeah. And I met um there was a speaker at the expo there named Marshall Ulrich, and he like he he I was instantly like sold on this whole like wanting to go because so he ran across America in 2008. Um and he just missed all right, he missed it by a few days, but he he was going for the the um record, speed record for running across America. And I ran into him again at like at the Chicago Marathon that fall. Like I and I I read his book about running across America, and like I think that was kind of like the extra like boost um to want to get into like the crazy, really long ultra stuff. I was reading his book about running across America and just some of the races that he did, like you know, bad water and these kind of crazy, I don't know what he calls them, but like quad race runs where he like I don't know, does like bad water four times in a row on his own. So um it just it just like I never knew that that type of stuff happened. And so just kind of like I feel like that stuff is much more readily available with things like you know, Instagram and all that. But this was like back in 2011 when it was like Facebook was barely even a thing. And so just reading about that, like I think was kind of like the stepping stone just in my mind of like wanting to do all the crazy long stuff.

SPEAKER_06: 26:40

And what about running across America inspired you?

SPEAKER_00: 26:45

Yeah, I mean, growing up, uh um I'm the youngest of five kids, and so you know, we would go on like some really crazy long road trip every summer. Like we even drove to Alaska, and so like I had like a very much um road trip uh in my DNA. And so when I and then like kind of just coming across running at the end of high school, and then kind of realizing that ultrarunning was a thing, and then finding out that there's like a way you can do both, like a road trip and you know, ultra running at the same time, was like, oh my gosh, like I have to do this. And didn't think I'd really do it until like being retired someday. I didn't think I'd get an opportunity to to do like a run across America, you know, in my late 20s. But um yeah, it was just something I dreamed of doing uh someday.

SPEAKER_03: 27:39

How did it come together? Like what was the point? Like what it what does it take to run across America?

SPEAKER_00: 27:47

Yeah, uh, you know, I in 20, I want to say 2015, so a few years after, you know, I kind of heard about like running across America was a thing. Um I I placed first at Badwater, and um I think it was then that I was like, I'm I'm gonna figure out a way the next year in 2016 to run across the country. Not sure how I'm gonna do it. I might have to like pay for it all out of my own pocket and savings, but we're gonna make it work. And so um, yeah, I was just like I I started training like 200 mile weeks, and I was just like so sold, even though it was like very stressful because um like we were moving to another state, and like everything was like there was like every reason not to. Um, and and then like but then I also like was able to get like a leave of absence from work for you know a month and a half, and like then everything started to like shift the other way where it was like, oh well it is gonna happen. It's uh like let's go, let's do this. And so uh got got spot sponsorship at the very last second from Hoka that helped cover a lot of the expenses, and so yeah, I was just you know like I mean it was just like I was gonna do it no matter what, and um things kind of just came together and uh I just had like a if not now then when mentality kind of going going into it, which I I kind of wish I still had that because I now I now I like struggle trying to like think of you know things to do like that now that I'm a little bit older.

SPEAKER_06: 29:24

Yeah, because you were talking about wanting to run across Australia. Is that in the works?

SPEAKER_00: 29:29

Yeah, you know, it's I it's some day someday, you know. I was I was hoping that maybe maybe I would um do that this year, but um I think you know I was probably kind of getting a little ahead of myself, um, even though like I've been wanting to do it for several years, I think um one one step at a time. And so um, but yeah, it's something I definitely want to do, but it's it's like one of those things that's kind of like I don't know, I honestly don't know if I'd have like a bigger goal than what I want to do to run. Across Australia, so it's like I'm kind of waiting for like the perfect um perfect time to do it.

SPEAKER_06: 30:08

I went to uni in Australia, as they say, right for six months. Yeah. The um wild things out there want to kill you.

SPEAKER_00: 30:19

So that's what I've been told. Like, honestly, I mean, doing the the two trans cons that I've done, it's always, you know, it's always like when I was up in Alaska when I did I ran from Alaska to Florida, I was like, oh, like every night, like I I would wake up in the middle of the night and wonder, oh, is like a bear gonna eat me? Because people keep saying I'm gonna get eaten by a bear. Honestly, humans are the most dangerous uh animal humans behind in in cars, um is always the the most dangerous uh wildlife you're gonna encounter, I've noticed.

SPEAKER_02: 30:56

Have you had some close calls? I I do remember reading your your support vehicle was in a large accident during your record attempt.

SPEAKER_00: 31:05

Yeah, yeah. Um and um my friend Dean, who is who is crewing, was in the car when it got hit. Did you just drop Dean Carnazes as much as different Dean? Dean No, no, different Dean, yeah. That would be a good way to go. World's bet yeah, Dean and Chuck are amazing crew, and they um I'm hoping that if I and actually I um Chuck came out to Badwater with with me this year, and and it was kind of fun to get him him crewing me again. But yeah, um, yeah, there's been you know, with you know, I I don't think I had like any times where I thought I was gonna die because of car bad driver, but you always have to like keep your eye on them because and I and I got really good when I w when I was pushing a stroller um the time I did it, the the self-supported from Alaska to Florida. Um I had to be very careful with the stroller and and make sure that like if I and like kind of judge cars, like if they were drifting towards me, I'd proactively kind of get out of the way because I knew that like they're probably staring at their phone uh while they drive.

SPEAKER_02: 32:11

So and you gotta do that every day for months. Yeah. Probably I mean, just it would be easier if you had a bike path the whole time.

SPEAKER_00: 32:24

Oh, yeah. Again, anytime you have a bike path is amazing. You just kind of like you can zone out, you don't have to like think about anything.

SPEAKER_06: 32:32

So I've been running marathons before, road marathons, and I've kind of wished that a car would hit me so that I could quit running. Is that is that just me? Did you have that experience?

SPEAKER_05: 32:47

A little bit, yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 32:52

Thanks for not leaving me hanging there. So you talked about in this podcast I was listening to how your body uh adapts eventually to doing these long distance adventures, like after a week. And I would love to hear a little bit more about your experience with that adaptation.

SPEAKER_00: 33:16

Yeah, I think um I don't know what it is exactly, like what the science is behind it, but I mean that the I think the best way to describe it is like you're you're putting your body like like maybe you maybe even like just the well, kind of like the adaptation of like going from like a lower altitude to a higher one. Like so, like you know, going out to Leadville from like sea level, for example, you know, that first like week you're out there, you're just like you can barely breathe. It takes a while, and like by you know, a few weeks your your body is adapted. I think it's almost the same with like doing a run across country, like your body is pushing back at you and saying, No, we don't want to do this. And so like you just have to like it takes a while for your body to adapt and accept the fact that you're just gonna beat the crap out of it every single day. Um, so that so yeah, I think by usually it's about seven to fourteen days in. You know, I've only done a couple like multi-week race runs, but that was about the the tipping point where my body is like, yeah, I'm not gonna be able to like run very fast. Like if you know, if I had to like sprint, I couldn't really sprint, but my body is just like finally durable enough to handle it. So yeah, I think and I and I've seen it a lot with other runners too that have done similar like transcon runs. Like it takes the body usually like a week to two weeks to like accept what you're putting, what what you're like putting it through. And then I think your body kind of learns how to like recover quicker too. Like, um, you know, honestly don't really know the science behind it, but it's that I I think it is kind of like like other things like yeah, like adapting to altitude. It's like adapting to the the amount of pounding that you're putting into it.

SPEAKER_06: 35:10

We need more research. I because I relate to this. I've done a couple of um multi-day adventures, and I relate to it like on the smallest of level because I the longest I've gone is five days, not not months. But there's this there is that feeling of like there's something happening where it should be getting harder, but it's not actually getting harder. It's just it got hard and then it stayed the same hard the whole time.

SPEAKER_00: 35:38

Yeah, I mean, yeah, even yeah, even like a like a race like that, like it's kind of like accelerated, where like I've done a couple of six-day races and neither of them has really gone the way I wanted it to overall. But it was always like day two to two or three that were the hardest, not necessarily day four, five, or six. And it's but yeah, it's like kind of on an accelerated time frame because you're like just pushing your body through some like even more all at once, you know, those first couple days.

SPEAKER_02: 36:05

Yeah, I was watching John Kelly's uh AT attempt this year because he was he was recording videos every day. It was easy to stay in touch with them, and it was very clear that that that that day like six to ten was so hard, but then but then he got stronger after that.

SPEAKER_03: 36:25

Like the body had adapted. I don't know, it's pretty cool. I I would love to see more research on what's actually happening, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 36:35

Yeah, well, yeah, and and then like um Jeff Garmeyer recently, and then like Tara Dower. I know she like picked up the pace when she got the overall appalacian record, and and so yeah, it's like can you be humble enough not to and and that's I had to take I took a day off um when I ran San Francisco, New York, I think day seven, because I had just beat myself up too much that first week, even though I wasn't really doing more miles per day than I did, you know, in weeks two, three, four, five. But it was just my body was having a hard time adjusting to to it, and I had like literally just had to take a day off. Otherwise, I probably would have DNF'd.

SPEAKER_02: 37:16

How um I want to ask about you like your support system for these uh so you did one transcom, the Alaska to Florida that was self-supported, right?

SPEAKER_00: 37:26

Yeah, yeah, pushed uh all my gear and a stroller.

SPEAKER_02: 37:30

Wow. And you did you re-up at did you mail yourself equipment or and supplies, or did you like just shop at the convenience store?

SPEAKER_00: 37:39

Yeah, luckily for that one, I um now up on the Alaska Highway, like you might have to get a little uncomfortable because you're like you might there the might you might only have like trail mix available to like buy at like the smallest little like mom and pop gas station in like a hundred miles. Um so there were like days where like I went like three, I think three or four days on the Alaska Highway where I was just eating trail mix. Um so and you might have to like stock up water. Um, but yeah, I mean it's I didn't the only thing I had shipped along the route were new tires um for the the stroller because they would just eventually just like wear down. And then um HOCA shoes. Um this is back when HOCA wasn't as like readily available. Well, and then you're you know you're going through like really tiny towns sometimes. Um so yeah, it was just shoes and what hits the road was the only thing I needed uh to have shipped because otherwise I just kind of loaded up on whatever calories I could find uh along the route.

SPEAKER_02: 38:46

Did you try different strollers to find the right one?

SPEAKER_00: 38:52

Yeah, I I went with, I think it was called like a Thule Glide stroller, and it was like a bigger stroller. Um and the thing I liked about it was that you could like buy replacement parts pretty easily. Because that was like my big concern was like getting a stroller that might be more durable, but then like finding the replacement parts would be harder. So I had like a bunch of like extra replacement stuff, like well, I mean mainly tires that um that made that one kind of like the I think that was like the most popular like big stroller at the time. I still have it today. I just I keep thinking I'll maybe I'll use it again someday, but it just kind of sits sits in the garage.

SPEAKER_02: 39:37

Have you ever done a self-supporting bad water with the stroller?

SPEAKER_00: 39:40

No, I I've I'm always intrigued by it, but no, I have not. I've only done the done the race with the full crew.

SPEAKER_06: 39:50

Because you're usually trying to win bad water or do really well, anyways. Right?

SPEAKER_00: 39:56

Yeah, yeah, and and yeah, and so like if you did it self-support, you'd have to do it on like your own time outside of the race. But um, no, that that's a really cool one because like there's um there's like the self-contained bad water where like people are like literally so so you have like so that one is I I think you call it unsupported. Unsupported. That's when you carry everything from the beginning to end. Yeah, you have everything with you, and you can't even re because you you you in theory could refill like water and food like three or four times along the bad water course. Um but yeah, this is like for for whatever reason, no one really does it self-supported. It's always like unsupported. It's like the like grail of of bad water that Marshall and a few other people have done over the years. Sounds scary.

SPEAKER_04: 40:49

Yeah, how much water do you have to bring to survive?

SPEAKER_00: 40:53

I I I drink a lot. I mean, when I'm doing that race I'm drinking about 70 ounces per hour easily. Um so that's like a gallon every less than two hours. And so, you know, if it take if it took you like 30 hours, well, longer than that if you're pulling a chariot, I don't know. It's a lot of water. That's like 60 liters. Yeah.

unknown: 41:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 41:18

When it when I do bad water, I always I buy um, it's usually like 25 to 30 gallons of water that um the that i slash the crew uses over the course of that race.

SPEAKER_03: 41:32

So what makes uh what keeps bringing you back to bad water?

SPEAKER_02: 41:36

I mean, you were doing it early in your career, you did you just did it this year?

SPEAKER_00: 41:41

Yeah, I um I think a few things. I mean, it's like there's just a lot of people I've gotten that are kind of like family to me now that do it um not every year, but um that are either racing or out there crewing someone else. So it's it kind of feels like a family reunion um in some ways. And I I think it and it's it's so unique. Like the like I did I I go to a lot of races um without a crew. Like I like I like doing it both ways. Like I like certain races where I have a very involved crew taking care of me, and then I like going to you know, other races where you know the aid stations are really good, so you know why not just kind of you know wing it and do it without a crew. Um but Badwater is like special to me because it's like the one race where I do like to have a really good crew, usually you know, three people with me. And it's just kind of like a different experience because it really is, I mean, it's so it's not like a lot of races, like you know, western states where you might see your runner like three, four times. It's you're seeing your runner every like every like 10 to 15 minutes, and so it's just it is a lot of work for the crew. So it definitely feels more to me like um like a team sport um out there at Badwater. Um maybe kind of like similar to maybe like what it would feel like to be like the bobsled in the Olympics. Like you you you really are like a team and you're the one that's just running. Um and then it's just the most I in my opinion, it's like the most beautiful place on earth, um Death Valley and the surrounding areas, and you know, it doesn't sound like it'd be like beautiful, but it is, and it's just such a unique, cool place where it's you know, you're starting at like below sea level, and then you're over the course of 135 miles, you're like ending in like the Sierras, and so that's that part of it as well. It just kind of keeps bringing me back.

SPEAKER_06: 43:43

Have you seen the documentary Running on the Sun?

SPEAKER_00: 43:47

Yes, that's great.

SPEAKER_06: 43:48

That's my favorite.

SPEAKER_00: 43:49

It's so good.

SPEAKER_06: 43:50

I make everyone watch it once a year.

SPEAKER_00: 43:54

Yeah, no, I I love that one.

SPEAKER_03: 43:56

Yeah, that that's Marshall's got his toenails taken off in that movie. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 44:02

That's his like one appearance in the movie. It's like Marshall a Badwater legend. Oh, here's my toes without toenails. I'm gonna I'm gonna out Miranda.

SPEAKER_04: 44:14

She uh Miranda really uh she got a long-term dream of maybe running Badwater someday.

SPEAKER_00: 44:20

Oh, you have to.

SPEAKER_06: 44:23

I love that. Required I'm I'm working towards it. Very cool. Pete, this is running with problems. That's our podcast title. And I know you've had some problems. You had a bad car accident that took you out of a running game for a while. What when was that and what happened?

SPEAKER_00: 44:45

Yeah, um, just over two years ago. Um and it it's interesting because like I think a lot of people think I got hit like while I was running. And and actually, no, I was in a I was like one of the rare times when I'm actually in a car. So I was out at um actually in Colorado, um, out at Leadville, um, and I was going to pace slash crew slash pace my friend Tyler. Um and Tyler's, I mean, he's he's like kind of all over the world right now. He he's like he keeps going for the Everest FKT, which he'll get one of these days. Um but yeah, he's he's a he's a speedy guy, and he's um, you know, we we were really like the he got like I think fourth place the year before, but he was kind of in the mix, you know, the whole race um right there with McDonald. And so yeah, it felt really good. Like we're like really excited, we're back, we're like we're he's gonna get first place this year. And then I was out uh got dinner with some of the other crew, and we were um driving back to our um little cabin near Buena Vista, and um next thing I know, like the I was in the back of the car, and it was a Prius, and of course it was like a Toyota Tacoma truck was going like 60 miles an hour. We were stationary basically waiting to turn left into our campground. And next thing I know, I'm in an ambulance. I can't like I don't even like I I knew like where I was, but I couldn't like say the names of like like I was looking around at the mountains there and I like couldn't say the name of any of them or really even my own name. Um went to the hospital in near Salida, had a really bad um I would call it hematoma. It's like just blood pooling in my pelvis area, and we couldn't figure out like what was wrong with me, but I just like I couldn't stand up because like they would try to get me up and I would like black out instantly because all the blood was like going away from my head. And so finally, like 12 hours later, they got me on a helicopter to Colorado Springs and had like emergency surgery to stop the hematoma, and then like my pelvis was also like basically shattered, and so got three giant screws that are still in my pelvis today that kind of like brought everything back together, and so leaving the hospital for about a week and then uh was in a wheelchair for a couple months, and yeah, so that was yeah, two years ago, and then um, but the really the thing that was awesome to me was that like um I think sometime around so they told me not to run for six months, which I mostly obeyed. Uh so early 2023, no, yeah, early 2024, um, I was signed up for Cocodona, and I had been running for like a couple months, like not much at all. And like I was like, all right, well, am I doing Cocodona or not? I don't know. So I basically hiked all of Cocodona, I did it. Um, and then I eventually got back and did Leadville, which is funny because like I I DNF'd Leadville way back in like 2013, and then I've I've gone back to the race to crew a bunch, but I never really entered the race. So yeah, long story short, I did that.

SPEAKER_06: 48:21

That was like a full circle, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 48:23

Exactly a year after the car accident. And I just I think I squeezed in under the to get the 25 hour sub-25 hour buckle, which was like my main goal. Wow. Um, yeah, it was really special because I that was one of those races where I I wanted to do it without a crew. I didn't want to like make a big deal out of it, and I wanted to like really kind of like let it sink into me. And then I had um my friend Bronson met me at Twin Lakes, and I you know, I told him just meet me at Twin Lakes and we'll run the last 38 miles together. And so he's like this this guy I met who had just graduated from Northern Arizona University, and he's gotten into ultra running and it was just fun because it wasn't like I was just doing the whole race like in silence and in my own thought, but I had like the first 62 miles, you know, 100 kilometers to kind of think think back on the on the year, and then but then to have him just like me and him just like running the last 38 miles together was was really cool because it was just you know, he just you know two guys, two dumb guys running it through the woods at night. And so yeah, it was just it was a really fun experience and uh definitely one of my favorite memories of of running.

SPEAKER_02: 49:36

So I'm interested in this that you went right back to the scene where where you were injured, right? Like you went right back to Leadville like that year.

SPEAKER_03: 49:45

Was that like intentional? Like you wanted to go back to where it had happened.

SPEAKER_00: 49:52

Yeah, yeah, it was. Um, yeah, and and and like and it it even goes back further than that. Like Leadville, um, when I was a kid, uh, it was like one of those summer road trips we did was we went out, we would go out to Colorado um some summers and try to hike 14ers. I'd say try because like you know, it took me, I think, even like my second attempt to get up to the top of Elbert, because like when I was like I think nine, ten, somewhere around nine or ten years old, I think, um, I tried hiking Elbert and I got like just so dizzy that like I couldn't make the last thousand feet. And so yeah, like and then like going back in 2013, kind of early on in my and you know, hiking Elbert when I was 14, I think made it to the top. And then like when I was you know in my mid-20s, DNFing Leadville in 2013, it's just like a kind of a special kind of that area's always kind of been special to me, like in good ways and bad. And so I was like that, I don't have any choice but to to do Leadville, you know, a year after. And yeah, it was it was great.

SPEAKER_03: 50:56

Yeah, it's such a good release. I mean, or I don't know, like uh healing, I guess.

SPEAKER_02: 51:01

Oh yeah, absolutely. And that area is amazing. I was just down there in BB, that's where we had our little our 50Ks. Uh yeah, that area is absolutely beautiful. And it's right now it's peak leaf peeping season.

SPEAKER_01: 51:14

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_06: 51:15

Pete, I'm curious about your mindset. Like when you were in this, when you were in the state where you're injured, you're in a wheelchair. Did you know for certain that you were going to recover and go back to running? Like, did was that in your mind, no matter what anyone told you you knew for certain? Kind of like when you know for certain a finish line is inevitable.

SPEAKER_00: 51:38

Yeah. Um, yeah, it's it's weird. It's like whenever I think I don't do well when I'm like on top of the world, and then but when I'm like really far down, like I don't like when I look back on that, it's like, man, I'm like I'm surprised I wasn't like really depressed about not knowing if I'd ever run again or like how that's all gonna work. And so um, yeah, I mean, I like I I was like, I remember I was barely even walking after you know being non-weight bearing for a few months, and I was like already talking about like, oh yeah, I'm gonna do this and this and this, and like you know, I probably did like half of that half the things that I said I was gonna do over like the year I did after it was just crazy. And so yeah, I like all along I had no doubt um that I would like I think you know, I had a I've had a few friends that were like more knowledgeable about like re rehabbing and like getting strength back, and I I don't I think they probably thought I was like kind of crazy for thinking like that I would I would be just fine. And but yeah, I mean that was the kind of the thought process the whole time was like you're gonna do all these things, you're gonna be you know, maybe even stronger, which I feel like I am now, um, because of all like the stuff that I do outside of running now that I didn't do before. Like I I basically all I did like was run. Like I didn't, I didn't I never and I still don't stretch, but I like I do a lot, like I do all these PT exercises, and it's like when I'm like I work a desk job and like I'll get up and like you know do 10 minutes here, five minutes there, and it adds up throughout the week. Um and you know it's it's a lot of hours of of extra work that you know doesn't go on Strava, that um nobody you know I think I honestly needed, you know, like because I I wasn't really I I was kind of like plateauing running-wise, like but even before that car accident. Um so I I kind of used it as like an excuse for like um you know, like a second life and running and like you know, prove that I can kind of go from zero to back to higher than I was before. Well that's amazing.

SPEAKER_06: 53:59

I love that. I like your mindset. It sounds like you have a very positive mindset. And um, I talk to some of my friends and they they talk about being like really prone to dark places, and that's where they find their strength in ultra running. But I think you can just as equally find strength with the positive mindset.

SPEAKER_00: 54:20

Yeah, no, I mean it it goes both. I I I I I relate to that as well. I mean, that there's a lot of days where you're just like I mean, I remember like even before Coca Dona, like I was just starting to run again, and like I had one of my legs was like numb and I was like like freaking out that I was gonna need surgery again to like have the screws taken out of and so yeah, it's but that but then like you know when you when you're able to get through something like that, it makes it much more rewarding when you can. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 54:51

You didn't tell your doctors you were gonna do Coca-Dona, did you?

SPEAKER_00: 54:56

I actually did, and I was surprised. I had I I have a I had a really good flagstaff doctor who I think well and then that was like the thing. Like, I think if I lived in any other city, like any doctor would probably be like, No, you're not doing that. But he would he's like, Of course you're gonna do it. And so I was like, all right, I love it. Yeah, yeah, I couldn't, I couldn't believe it. Because like I I felt like I felt like guilty like bringing it up to him with all this work that he put into me, and then I was just gonna go ruin my body at Coca-Dona. And he's like, No, you should do it. And I was like, Okay, well then I guess I have no excuse not to.

SPEAKER_06: 55:36

Yeah, we need to find that doctor because we've had a couple of guests where their doctors looked at them like they had uh grown horns or something.

SPEAKER_04: 55:45

Yeah. It was a good story, Chris McBride.

SPEAKER_06: 55:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04: 55:50

He was uh his doctor was very much against running. But you know, runners be running. It's inevitably.

SPEAKER_02: 55:59

Nobody signs up for uh races at the rate that injured ultra runners do. I feel like I feel like when you're injured, you're just like, yeah, I'm gonna get there, I'm gonna be there.

SPEAKER_00: 56:11

Yeah. Like I I found that no matter how like it doesn't matter how I start the year, like my max is like six hundred mile races or six races of a hundred miles or more. Like last year I wanted to do eight, or I was signed up for eight, and then I got to like I did Moge on Monster and then a 24-hour race the next weekend, and then like I and then this is where that same doctor actually was like kind of the opposite. He was like, Yeah, you have like stress reactions in both your hips, so I think you should call it a year and just be thankful that you've already overstayed your welcome. So it's like it's funny. Like, I've I've looked back and there's like I think three different years where I've done exactly like 600 mile races, but I've never been able to get to like a seventh one. So, like, no matter what I do, I'm like six is kind of like my max.

SPEAKER_06: 57:02

I think that's good.

SPEAKER_00: 57:03

Six is good. It's a good year, it's a very good year.

SPEAKER_06: 57:07

Yeah, what's next for you?

SPEAKER_00: 57:09

Uh I got the World 24 Hour Championships here in just over two weeks in France. So yeah, I'm excited because um I made the team. So it so that there's there's a few different like national ultra teams that I think a lot of people don't don't really know about because it's not necessarily that widely covered. But there's the 24 hour team, which I I'm on. There's like the 50k team, which actually my wife uh qualified for. Oh, cool. Um, there's a hundred K team, and I think there's like a mountain ultra team that I think they just re just had theirs. Jim Walmsley and so yeah, we get aware of the US US uh singlet over in France here in a couple weeks. And so 24 hour races, um, you know, it's a fixed time, so it's it's like probably maybe the most unique USATF sanctioned like team because you're not like racing a course, you're just racing in a loop for 24 hours to see how many miles he can do. So, yeah, that's that's the next big one for me. Um, is is that here in a couple weeks. So getting excited.

SPEAKER_02: 58:20

Have you ever been on team USA before?

SPEAKER_00: 58:22

Yeah, just once, and it was eight years ago. So in in uh Northern Ireland, and it went terri. I did terribly. So this is like I've been waiting for like eight years for redemption. Yeah. Like not against anyone, but just myself.

unknown: 58:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 58:41

So yeah, I excited.

SPEAKER_01: 58:43

I find it interesting.

SPEAKER_02: 58:44

Like you're you're gonna be representing US at the national at the world championships. You've actually like run across the entire country.

SPEAKER_01: 58:52

Like, how many people wearing that jersey have actually run like across the country multiple times.

SPEAKER_00: 58:57

Mr. USA.

SPEAKER_01: 58:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02: 59:00

What more? That's so cool. Do you have any goals for the event or just try to do your best?

SPEAKER_00: 59:06

Yeah, my you know, I I my PR, which is almost 10 years ago at this point, um, 160 around 163, 164 miles. Um that I'd like to try to up that even if it's only by like you know a mile. So somewhere in the 160s, I guess, is kind of my goal for that.

SPEAKER_01: 59:28

How are those races ranked? Like, do you know they're like team points? Do they add like the top three athletes?

SPEAKER_00: 59:36

Yeah, yeah, that's a good question. It's um so there are six you can have up to six um on your team, and then it's your top three runners total mileage added together. So like um a lot of years, I want to say like 800k is kind of like the uh the benchmark for like a really good. Potentially winning team because that would mean that you had like three runners, because that's like about 500 miles total. So that means you'd have like three mob three runners that are in that 160 to 170 mile range. Um, is is very competitive. So I think that's that'll probably be the goal for us if we if we want to get like a team medal is to try to get as close as we can to 800 combined kilometers between our top three runners.

SPEAKER_02: 1:00:28

Good luck. We'll be cheering for you.

SPEAKER_06: 1:00:30

Yeah, we are we're coming up on time, but I have to ask you a question. I have to sneak in a last question before I ask you my final question, which I'm really curious about what you learned about the United States from running across it and experiencing it so up close and personal in that way.

SPEAKER_00: 1:00:50

Yeah. Um I think and I think everyone that that does like a run across the US will say the same thing, but it's just like how nice people are, like when you're face to face with them. Doesn't matter which state you're in, doesn't matter like what county. Like, yeah, I mean, and it it I've seen it so much that it's kind of like I'm kind of jaded where it's kind of like just like a cliche that I already know about. But yeah, like that's the thing that I think surprises people the most when you like kind of go in deep on these like what day-to-day of like a life of running across a country is how surprised they are, like how nice people are to you. Um now there's a lot of people that are mean, like you know, honk at you, tell you to get off the road. But like if you like pretty much even the even like the several people when I was pushing the stroller, they got out of their car, like cracking their knuckles, coming up to me, and they thought that I had a baby in the stroller and we're gonna like Oh my god, they're ready, they're ready to steal the baby and turn him into foster care. Yeah, there was uh there was literally a guy in Florida that was like he he was coming up to me like real, real mean looking, and then like he basically like hugged me when he found if he realized that I didn't have a baby in the stroller because he's like, I was about to kick the shit out of you.

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:07

Because you're like you're you're just like in on an open highway in the middle of the day and he's like this on side.

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:13

Yeah, it was it was a highway that I you know it was there's it was a lot of traffic and there was really no shoulder. So it's like if you did have a baby, you're definitely being negligent uh pushing a stroller on that highway. So yeah. No, I have yeah, I mean, just yeah, the the amount of kindness that you know people have when you're just talking to them face to face is I think the the biggest thing I I kind of gotten out of those types of runs.

SPEAKER_06: 1:02:41

Great. Pete, this has been excellent. I would love to ask you to share a piece of unsolicited advice with our listeners. It doesn't have to be about running, but it certainly can be.

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:54

Absolutely. Um and this is something I like I I'm really bad, so I'm tapering right now, and so like sometimes it can be really I don't do well when I'm tapering because then it's like, well, what's the point? I'm tapering, so like I'm just gonna skip this run. I go for a run, I'm not feeling like it. And so just like getting out the door and like tricking yourself into especially if like you have like a workout scheduled or like a harder effort or a really long run. It's just like tell yourself to just get outside and like and just like that's half the time. I tell myself, like, well, I I can just walk, like I don't even have to run. And like I know it never ends up that way, but just like tricking yourself to get out the door, um, to to be active, and just like that's the way you're you're gonna be you know most fit mentally and physically. And yeah, so just great get outside and you know then your body will take care of the rest.

SPEAKER_04: 1:03:55

Oh yeah. I literally did that today. So it's good advice.

SPEAKER_06: 1:04:01

Thank you for being on the pod, Pete. This was great.

SPEAKER_00: 1:04:04

Oh, thank you so much for having me. This is great.