Welcome And Salton Sea Crew Tales

SPEAKER_03 0:10

Hello and welcome to Running with Problems. My name is John Eisen.

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I'm Miranda Williamson.

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Running with Problems is a podcast that explores the problems encountered during a life in running. Today on the podcast, we have Mitch Dullock. It's our second episode on the Iditarod Trail Invitational, the running race that takes place a week before the classic Iditarod dog sled race. But before we get to that, Miranda, how are you doing?

SPEAKER_04 0:36

I'm doing great. We had an epic weekend crewing some friends out at the Salt and Sea Badwater race.

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Yeah, Badwater Salt and Sea is an 81-mile, mostly road race uh from the Salton Sea, which is a really cool place. Tell the people about Salton Sea.

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The Salt and Sea is this not actually a sea, it's a lake that turned toxic. When was it back in the 70s?

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In the 50s, they built a bunch of resorts for the Hollywood elite. People are out there water skiing.

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And apparently it was a pretty cool place to go, like the Hamptons.

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Yeah, it's in Southern California, northeast of San Diego, about two hours after and then something bubbled up under the surface.

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Sulfur came bubbling up into the lake, and fish started floating dead to the surface, and things started smelling really terrible. And the whole place went toxic. And eventually the lake mostly dried up and people left in droves. And the only type of people who remained there are a very certain type of people.

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The kind of people who live next to a lake that's toxic.

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They didn't care to be around other people.

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Yeah.

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Your kind of people.

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My kind of my kind of Berry Creek people.

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Yeah, yeah. Your family would be very happy at the soldier.

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Yes. So it's a very interesting place. Um, the race actually starts on a fish graveyard.

SPEAKER_03 2:06

It it used to start at the lake, but the lake has receded like a hundred yards. Yeah, it just keeps dying. Yeah, like you're on a road named like Yacht Club Drive, and it like ends in a dock that goes into a dry lake bed, and like somewhat like a hundred yards out, you can see water. Like the water just totally receded. It's a very eerie place.

SPEAKER_04 2:29

Yeah, it's creepy, but kind of cool as well.

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And it's in a desert. So as soon as like the sun came up, it got pretty hot for the day. So, how'd our runners do? Brendan and Sergio.

SPEAKER_04 2:42

Brendan and Sergio. Brendan lives here in Boulder, but he's also a San Diego runner, and Sergio's a San Diego friend. Their team name was the San Diego Slammers because they'd both finished the Grand Slam in San Diego, which was a series of races. It's like a ultras.

SPEAKER_03 3:00

It's like a 50 miler, a 100K, 100-miler, and maybe a 50K. I don't know.

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Something like that.

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Something like any calendar year.

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Yes. Um, and they're all in San Diego County. So that's the San Diego slam, Grand Slam.

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Now, Salton Sea is a very interesting race. It's one of the only races of its kind in this way. It requires teams of runners. So either two or three people that have to stay together. The only time you can be slightly apart is like when, you know, somebody's uh doing their business in the in the wood, in the bushes. Every other time you have to be within like super close to each other. You basically have to be running together for the full 81 miles. And it runs like a hundred miler because it's very uphill, slow, graded. Like a lot of people take more than 24 hours to do this race, even though at you know at 81 miles, mostly on the road, you might think, okay, this runs at like a 100K kind of race. No, it runs a lot more closer to like a fast 100. And it is tough because if you want to slow down and your partner doesn't, well, your partner has to. And when you start to feel better, you better hope your partner feels better at that point. So if you get on like like opposite sine waves, right? Where you're feeling bad when they're feeling good and they're feeling bad when you're feeling good, like you're gonna have like an overall relatively poor race because you're always going at the lower, like who's ever feeling worse. Because if you run that fast, right? You can't split apart.

SPEAKER_04 4:36

And what it takes to crew for these people.

SPEAKER_03 4:39

Yeah, what does it take to crew for these people?

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You have to drive in a van and leapfrog them because there are no aid stations.

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It's the Badwater style of crewing where there's no aid, you're just in a car or a van, and you just drive. You know, we started out a little farther than most teams. We started out every like four to five miles. Most teams started out at three miles. And then once we got into the night, we we went a little shorter. Right. But like we were we basically saw our runners every 45 minutes.

SPEAKER_04 5:12

We did. And we were a great team.

SPEAKER_03 5:15

Yeah, we are a good team.

SPEAKER_04 5:17

I was the driver and John was the navigator, which was an excellent division of labor given our skill sets.

SPEAKER_03 5:24

Yeah, I was able to pick out, okay, we're gonna go exactly three miles, you know, go to this point, find a pull off here. Um yeah, I also played photographer.

SPEAKER_04 5:36

You did.

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I got a lot of great shots.

SPEAKER_04 5:39

Yep.

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They're up on my website. I don't know if anybody cares to look at the photos, but if you do, johnizen.me slash photos.

SPEAKER_04 5:47

They're beautiful. And we're gonna bring some guests in to talk about this a little bit more because it was fun. It was fun being out there. Yes.

SPEAKER_03 5:53

Yeah, we saw Andrea out there, Coach K, Andrea Kuiman, who uh I we'd like to get her on the pod. That would be good.

SPEAKER_04 6:01

Yeah, we'll love to get her on the pod and talk a little bit about this experience and Badwater. But back to the video.

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Well, last but not least, congratulations, Sergio and Brendan for completing the race and getting sixth place.

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Sixth place, they've really crushed it. They totally crushed it. Totally crushed it.

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And they couldn't have done it without us.

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They could they they really couldn't have. But they could have probably got other friends to do it. But they really did amazing. And it's always fun to crew people when they're um doing so well.

SPEAKER_03 6:33

Yeah, it was really fun. Uh, thanks for letting us crew y'all. And yeah, it was pretty good. So let's get back to Mitch.

Why The Iditarod Trail Invitational Pulls People

SPEAKER_04 6:40

Mitch.

SPEAKER_03 6:41

We're talking about ITI here. Yeah, I did a rod trail invitational. Um, we did a partner episode uh with John Clark, who finished ITI 1 350, the 350-mile race. Mitch also started the 350-mile race this year, and he Mitch has already run the 150. John, this was his first winter ultra ever. For Mitch, this is his second. And he's coming in with that one year of experience having run ITI 150. And they both have a goal of getting to the 1000. They both want to do the full I did a rod experience.

SPEAKER_04 7:17

Yes.

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But this year didn't go as well for Mitch.

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And Mitch is ready to come back. There's something about this event that draws people in. You'll hear it when Mitch talks about it. He's like so passionate about this experience and this event. Even though his event did not go as well as JC's, he still is like, I can't wait to do it again.

SPEAKER_03 7:40

When we were at Salton Sea, we met a man named Luke Thomas who finished. He was the runner who finished just prior to John Clark. And I believe John actually mentions Luke in his interview.

SPEAKER_04 7:54

Yeah, we got to meet him in person. And we we told him.

SPEAKER_03 7:56

So yeah, we came, we we're on our podcast. We saw him there and we we went up and talked to him. Uh hi Luke, if you're listening. But it was really cool because you know, the first thing we told Luke was like, hey, we, you know, we interviewed John Clark, you know, we saw that you just finished ITI, that sort of thing. And Luke's like, there's something about that event, man.

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Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:16

I just wanna I just wanna do that event every year. I just want to do the thousands. Like there is this event for these people is uh, you know, it's a it's a point, that focus, something they really strive for year over year over year to perfect their gear, perfect their strategy.

SPEAKER_04 8:36

Yeah. Now I'm gonna be quite honest, listeners. I was not super excited to talk about this because cold events, like, oh, this sounds terrible. But I'm really drawn in. Not that I want to do one, but I think it's so amazing that these people are so passionate about this really, really incredibly tough thing. Speaking of that, we were like curious in our conversations with Luke, or not Luke, but uh Mitch and JC, about like what does it take to do something this intense? What does it take to keep going when things get so incredibly tough?

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John finished this event by the skin of his teeth.

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By the skin last finisher.

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Last finisher, emaciated, frostbit, n having not eaten or drank nearly enough on any one of those sections. And I want you, the listener, to like if you're gonna enjoy this uh interview with Mitch, one thing you can do is you can try to think about like what does it take? Because Mitch, spoilers, doesn't end up finishing ITI 350 this year. And I really found it interesting is like an analysis of what actually does it take to finish one of the hardest events out there, most technically challenging, in the some of the worst weather they've ever had. You know, and you know, global warming's not going away. The worst weather is gonna keep coming. Okay. Like what does it take? What mindset does it take? And you'll I think you'll hear some some key differences between Mitch and John. And this isn't like uh, you know, we don't want to be saying that this is some flaw in character. It is just about in order to complete something this hard, you have to put yourself in a very specific place. And um I I've been there like a few times in my life, and I think about it a lot when I think about these events. It's like, where do you have to get your brain and your mind to so that when push comes to shove and you face something risky, something that could result in your permanent injury or death and you you still choose to go forward? What does that take for the mind? I think it's super interesting.

SPEAKER_04 11:09

I think it's interesting and honestly, it like kind of makes my stomach turn a little bit to think about knowing the stories as I do. Like it makes my stomach turn to think about putting yourself in that position of like extreme danger. This this event, you do face death in a in a way that a lot of the conversations we have and a lot of the people we talk to, they're doing risky and dangerous, hard things, challenging things, but they aren't as close to death as folks are in this event.

SPEAKER_03 11:45

Yeah, it's more likely. And and no one has died in this event in a long time, but the environmental concerns are there. You have to survive on your own. They are not coming for you.

SPEAKER_04 11:58

You're only one wrong decision away from death.

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Absolutely.

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Yeah.

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And you don't have a lot of brain power to think about it.

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Oh, it's wild. Oh, it's so intense.

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All right, let's get into it. Enough preamble. I hope you all enjoy. Um, hit us up at running with problems, running with uh podcast at runningwithproblems.run.

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Or on Instagram. And we're taking requests for episodes now.

SPEAKER_03 12:23

Yeah.

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So please send any episode requests, something you want to learn about, a conversation you'd like us to have, and we'll look into guests to um have that conversation.

SPEAKER_03 12:33

Sounds good. Without further ado, Mitch Dullock, IT I enjoy.

SPEAKER_04 12:47

Hi, Mitch. Welcome to the podcast.

SPEAKER_01 12:50

Good afternoon, guys. How are you?

SPEAKER_04 12:52

Doing well. We're um excited to chat with you. I did not know that I was interested in learning more about the I Did a Rod until our last podcast episode. I actually did not want to know anything about it until I was so enthralled with it from our last pod with JC.

SPEAKER_01 13:16

I feel bad about this because I've been talking to John a lot, the other John, um, and I did not realize that his dropped. So I'm gonna have to go back and quick listen to that.

SPEAKER_03 13:28

Oh, yeah, we just dropped it last night. Okay, okay, it's not you're not you're not listening to but I actually really appreciate that we're gonna have this conversation before you listen to that, so that we can get your raw take. Like we don't have to we don't have to weave around what John talked about. We can we can discuss your experience exactly as it was, and our listeners get to have both of those.

SPEAKER_04 13:50

And now you live in Colorado, right, Mitch?

SPEAKER_01 13:54

I live in Colorado, I live in Leadville. Um so yeah, I live in Colorado. How long have you lived in Leadville? I have been up here full time um since 2018.

SPEAKER_04 14:12

So tell me what why the I Did a Rod? Like what were the events that you did leading up to the I this idea that you wanted to do the I did a rod?

SPEAKER_01 14:24

Sure. Um, so I have been trail running and doing trying to do longer distance things um for quite a few years. Um since well, since I moved to Leadville, um and even before then, um I am not the fastest runner on the planet. Me neither. Heat is not a friend of mine. So you win really far in the opposite direction.

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Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:59

Um John and I hung out for a couple miles um when I attempted the High Lonesome 100 a couple years ago and totally succumbed to heat. Um, one of my really good friends um that also lives up here in Leadville, um, she ran High Lonesome, and I was like, that looks like a great race. I'm gonna do that. Um I don't always follow what she does, but she does have some good ideas. Um so after High Lonesome was one of them.

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Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:35

Um yeah, after High Lonesome, um her and her partner went to Alaska. They made an attempt on summoning Denali when they were coming back from Alaska. Um she was reading one of the in-flight magazines, and there was a story about the human-powered version of the ididerod. Um, everybody knows about the dog sleds, um, but few people know that there is a human-powered version um that goes all the way to Nome, a thousand miles, um, on foot, on bike or on skis. And knowing that I don't do well in the heat, I was like, well, maybe we can flip that around and go to extreme cold and where I can just keep moving. And so I I went to camp um one year. They they have a I did a rod trail camp. Um you have to have one or two um qualifiers. So I was going to go to camp, and then a couple days later, I was going to do the Susitna 100 out in Alaska. Um and that year they canceled the the race right before I was supposed to do it. Um reached out was canceled. The Susitna race was canceled. Uh ITI.

SPEAKER_04 17:13

Did they cancel it because of extreme weather? Because of cold?

SPEAKER_01 17:16

Um, they canceled it because of a lot of ice and glare ice on the swamps, and they did not feel that they could mark the course, I guess. Um whereas ITI says they are a unmarked course, and you basically are out there on your own. Um you know, you you you don't have a whole lot of um checkpoints. Um there are three checkpoints to get to where I got last year, um, and there are seven checkpoints overall in the 350. So um a friend of mine was complaining about distances between checkpoints in 100 that she's doing coming up, and I was like, oh, that's cute, because the distance between one of my checkpoints and the next one is 110 miles. Oh so um you have to be prepared, and that's kind of getting off on a tangent, but to answer your question, um, I I got into it mainly because I can't do heat. I mean I can, but it's it's it's hard on me.

SPEAKER_04 18:42

Um I think you're skipping over a lot. Like, why do you choose these big endurance events to begin with?

SPEAKER_01 18:50

Um The honest answer is because I don't always believe in myself and I like to do these things to prove to myself that I can do something really hard. Um so that's that's it in a nutshell, I think.

SPEAKER_03 19:19

Has it uh has it had to escalate over time?

SPEAKER_01 19:25

It hasn't had to, it just kind of has. Um I've had a lot of um of pretty good DNFs um in the long distances. Um I obviously live in Leadville. If you could see out my window, you would see where the start-finish line is. It literally is in my front yard. Um and like I said, I'm not a fast runner. Leadville is a fast horse, fast race, yeah. And I know I can do 100 milers. I mean, I did the ITI 150 last year, um, and I did it I thought pretty fast. So it hasn't had to escalate, but the goal has always been, or at least for the last couple years, to to complete the ITI 350, which is from Connecticut to McGrath, Alaska.

SPEAKER_03 20:31

Okay, amazing. I mean, uh I connect a lot with that idea of ultras as a self-proving, you know, like something inside you just says, like, you know, you're not good enough, you're not good enough. And and ultras are this externalization of like an absolute proof, at least for a period of time, that I am absolutely good enough because this is so incredibly difficult, and everyone agrees it's old. Oh yeah. Um so I've at least early in my career, I'd say very similar motivations um to that. And it it's not the most sustainable motivation in the world, but it is a powerful one. Yeah.

Training In Leadville And Cold Prep

SPEAKER_04 21:14

Okay. What like what did you do to prepare for that? I did a rod. Now you're you did your qualifiers, you're signed up. What did you do to prepare?

SPEAKER_01 21:25

Um I feel like living in Leadville um is a good way to start the prep. Um, we have some pretty good winters. Um I don't live in a low sea level area that's super warm. Um, so I I felt like as soon as the the snow started flying, um I'd be I'd be set. Um and we did not have here in Colorado A good winter. Um, we did not have a good temperature winter um here in Leadville. Um last year, one of our training runs um was an overnight bivy. It was kind of spur of the moment, but we're looking at the weather and we're like, oh, it's gonna be minus 15 overnight. That's perfect weather to set up a sleep station and cook a hot meal and then get some sleep and get up early the next morning and be on our way.

SPEAKER_05 22:35

Test your gear and all that.

SPEAKER_01 22:37

Yeah. I think when um and I I I guess I can talk about him. Um, so John Clark, he he came up and he did a couple of uh training runs with me up here, and one of them was a uh an overnight um actually two of them were overnight Bibbies. Um and I think and it's it's it sounds cold, but it really wasn't. I think we got to like minus five with a wind chill overnight. Um, but we're super prepared. We have minus 40 um degree sleeping bags, so it's it's not like you're actually in the elements. Um, I actually think John has a minus 60.

SPEAKER_04 23:30

Um bag he got.

SPEAKER_01 23:35

So what is your bag? Mine, mine is a uh a minus 40 degree sleeping bag, and that's not a you know, that's a a legit minus 40. It's not a well, you'll be uncomfortable, but it'll go to minus 40. So um, so I I just would do long training days um out around turquoise lake, and it's it's a great um it it has some elevation gain, um, but not a whole lot. And you you can just circumnavigate the the lake. So I would just go out and and do that. Um, pull my sled. Um they kind of groom it. There's a lot of snow machines out there, so it it kind of simulates what the what the course in Alaska would be. Um the only problem was it would get really warm in the daytime. Um like I think one of my training runs in January was 35, almost 40 degrees out in uh in the afternoon. So that does not do well for anything. Um in Alaska when you're doing your train or when you're doing the race, the the the main goal is do not sweat, because that that just makes everything really bad.

SPEAKER_03 25:09

Um so how can sweat, how can sweat um hurt you?

SPEAKER_01 25:14

Um well when once you get wet, if it's um if it's 70 out, it's it's fine. Um, but in Alaska, when you are carrying everything that you're going to need for the race, um, you don't have you know your your crew or people that you can meet at at checkpoints. Um the only thing you can have and in your drop bags is consumables, so batteries, hand warmers, and food. Um no gear, you have to take everything with you. Um so I had a finite amount of clothes I could change into. And if you're not at a checkpoint, if you're out in the elements, um and it's it got down to minus 40, minus 45, just air temperature. Um, that's before wind chill. Um, it can be, you know, and it's it's not hyperbolic, it's not hyperbole, it's it can be life-threatening making those clothing changes. So you have to be dry and you have to be warm.

SPEAKER_04 26:33

Um now, how do you I've heard people talk about this. I have no control over whether I sweat or not. How do you manage that experience? Do you just keep your heart rate low? Like, what do you do to keep that?

SPEAKER_01 26:49

That was the thing. Um you you just have to throttle down and go go slower, um, which at some point, at least for me, um, I can't go any slower, you know. Um we are at least for the foot athletes, um, we're pulling sleds. Um, we are pulling sleds that are easily over 40 pounds. They could be much heavier, you know, depending on how far you're going. I believe mine was 49 pounds when uh when I started um the race. And obviously there's a lot of food in there that that you can eat. Um, the first half of the race has a couple of checkpoints where you can actually stop at a roadhouse and pay for meals, um, things like that. But you have to you have to be prepared and still bring a lot more food than than you think you're gonna need because there isn't anything around for miles sometimes.

SPEAKER_03 28:04

You're literally on your own. You really are.

Water And Food That Won’t Freeze

SPEAKER_04 28:07

I really I guess now is a a good and as good a time as any to ask about this. Um, we didn't really talk with um JC too much about food choices or water, and then I just left that conversation really curious. What food did you choose to bring? How did you pick food that was not going to freeze? And how did you keep your water from not freezing?

SPEAKER_01 28:32

Sure. Um, so there's there's a couple, let's let's start with the water. Um, there's a couple of ways that you can do that. I had um, because you're not you're not carrying water bottles, you're not carrying flasks in your your your vest. I did this year, um after one of the one of the things about just to back up half a second, one of the things about um folks that do ITI is they will buy all of the gear and then they will figure out a number of things that is not made that they need. So um, and they'll they'll fashion it themselves, you know, they'll they'll cobble one and two things together. Um, but so I I did have a running vest um this year, um, and I kind of chunked together and cut apart and put back together a bunch of pieces of other running vests um so that I could have water on me um so that I wouldn't have to stop and get my thermos out. Um, definitely have a couple of Yeti bottles um that are super heavy. So and really insulated. Yeah. I had a um a running vest that I took um a couple of those, you know, the the shielding uh insulating sleeves that they come with. Um I had two of those that I cut apart and kind of taped back together. Um cut a hole in it um so that the the tube would come out the right way. Um I then got an insulating tube that I got off of a different running vest, um, cut some holes in it to reroute it so it would be all underneath my my armpit and around my waist and then come up kind of smart. Um keep it all close to your body, right? And then I would have a layer, at least one layer, over it. Um, so I kept most of my water, it did freeze, um, which was part of why I had to turn around. If we didn't get to that part yet, I did not finish the 350 this year.

SPEAKER_04 31:08

Spoiler alert. Yeah, sorry.

SPEAKER_01 31:11

Um I didn't um so that's how I kept my water warm. Um I had two liters of water in now genes. Um same thing with with other water bottles. You turn them upside down so that the freezing starts at the what really is the bottom. Um smart. And then of course we have um any number of lightweight backpacking stoves. So I had a uh an MSR whisper light. Um so I could um melt water or melt snow um to make water, I could make warm meals um for the backside of rainy pass where there's really nothing. Um so that's how you keep your water from freezing. Um food is kind of another story. You definitely test things out. Um, I have a lot of different candy bars and snack cakes and things that don't freeze um or that you can eat if they're frozen. Um so and then you you put stuff in your pockets and uh keep warm amount.

SPEAKER_04 32:43

Um so I can't imagine trying to eat a Snickers bar that was frozen that would be like hard as a rock.

SPEAKER_01 32:49

Snickers, no. Um Reese sticks, which are like a um a wafer cookie.

SPEAKER_04 32:58

That's what I was gonna ask if it was like the wafer ones.

SPEAKER_01 33:00

Yeah, those things, even when they're super cold, doesn't matter. You can you can eat those. Um what was I what was I eating? Um, little Debbie makes a oatmeal cream cake, cream, uh yes. Um, those things are good.

SPEAKER_04 33:19

That'll survive the zombie apocalypse.

SPEAKER_01 33:22

Yeah, I have a bunch of notes, and uh one of them is from last year. Trade Lynn Twinkies for um oatmeal cream cookies. So Twinkies also do not freeze, um, and you can eat them, and when they're smashed flat, they're they're pretty good. So um, so I stumbled across that last year, and then um, like I said, there's a couple of checkpoints between mile zero and mile 150 where you can get hot meals.

SPEAKER_04 34:06

Oh that would be to die for after eating oat cakes.

SPEAKER_01 34:11

It it really is. Um, you some of the meals are pretty expensive.

SPEAKER_04 34:18

Uh oh, you probably I'd pay uh whatever at that point.

SPEAKER_01 34:22

Yeah, um, but the food is so good. And again, it's not like you're running a marathon where you have to be cognizant of what you're eating. Um, one of the checkpoints called hooligans, um I had a breakfast sandwich that they made that was the size of a a small tire. Um, I had a a hunk of lasagna, um, I had two Cokes, and then I had um one of their homemade brownies, and then went to bed and got up and got more food from there.

Start Line Energy And Early Miles

SPEAKER_04 35:05

Well, let's let's get started. Let's take us to the start line.

SPEAKER_01 35:09

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 35:10

Yeah. How how were you feeling a little bit before the start? How'd the start go?

SPEAKER_01 35:14

So this year I was I was not as nervous. I was definitely a little bit nervous still, um, because you have 350 miles um in front of you. Um, so you get on a bus, you get out to uh this place called Connec Lake, um, where they have the Conic Lake bar and grill. Um if you've been there before, you know you unload your stuff and immediately run into the bar and grill. Um you pay for your your burger because they're they're grilling burgers outside for us. Um and so that's that's how we start. Um I had a burger, I had a coke, I had a beer, um and it was I think 22 degrees out. So it's like warm. This is definitely gonna be warm. Um, but the the the buzz, everybody was talking about, hey, you know, in a day and a half or two days, the temperatures are going to plummet. And I mean like well below minus 22.

SPEAKER_04 36:36

So and were you nervous about that?

SPEAKER_01 36:39

I was a little bit nervous about it, but I I felt like I had all of my gear dialed. Um I had you know everything I needed to be well below minus 20 um and be comfortable and safe. I mean, that's that's the thing, you know. You have to be you have to be safe because frostbite is a real thing. Um there are people that have lost fingers um from the race, uh lost uh you know toes that that go black. So it's it's it's a real thing. Um and it's it's not something you can just kind of nonchalantly slough off.

SPEAKER_03 37:29

So yeah, I mean there's real dangers out there.

SPEAKER_01 37:32

You gotta take care of yourself. Um so we we we started at 2 p.m. Alaska time, um, and we basically run across a frozen lake and jump right onto the um historic Ididerod trail.

SPEAKER_04 37:52

Um and what was the actual start line like? Was there like an audience there, a crowd gathered?

SPEAKER_01 37:59

Usually there's a bunch of people there. Um there are people from the area, there are people, um loved ones, obviously, that are out there. Um, so there were, I think there were a hundred and four of us that started, and there were easily a hundred people watching us go.

SPEAKER_05 38:25

Oh, great, so good energy.

SPEAKER_01 38:27

Um, yeah. And they start everybody together. So men and women um start together. Um, the 150 distance, the 350 and the 1000 distance, and foot athletes, um, fat bike and skiers. Everybody starts together. So it's it's kind of it's kind of a neat atmosphere. Um so yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:55

I love that. Okay, so tell tell us about day one.

SPEAKER_01 38:59

So we we start off and um we I know this this part of the trail really well, even though I've only been on it exactly once. Um, so I'm I'm I'm pretty pretty happy. Um I'm I'm cruising along. Definitely a snowier year than last year. Um, we were pulling our sleds over ice patches and dirt on the uh the first couple miles, and we were right out of the gate. We were on nothing but snow. Um hard packed. They have um, we're on snow machine trails. Um, so that is that is one of the things. Um everybody has their own way of getting to Butterfly Lake, which is checkpoint one, which also is um property owned by the race director and his wife, who is the communications director.

SPEAKER_03 39:59

Um love a comms director, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:02

Oh yeah. Um, so they they're at the start, and then at some point they will pass you on their snow machines as they get to Butterfly Lake. Um so sometimes the trails are not laid in. So you may have this great idea of how to get to Butterfly Lake, and you might get to a trail that nobody's been on in a couple months. Um, so we are we are actually on the Iditarod Trail. Um, they have a race two weeks before us called the Iron Dogs. Um, it is a two-person um snow machine event, and they go all the way to Gnome as well. Um, so we're on some fairly heavily traveled trail, um, but also some of the trails, like I said, are not laid in. So we're going along. Um, I know where I'm going, I know how I want to get to Butterfly Lake, um, which should take me any number of hours. I I'm always bad at estimating, but when it's a snowier year like it was this year, um, it was a little bit slower going.

SPEAKER_04 41:26

Um, but so are we talking like all day, like 14 hours, something like that?

SPEAKER_01 41:32

Um, it wasn't 14 hours. So Butterfly Lake is mile 25. Okay. Um, I think it took me about seven hours. Great. Seven or eight hours. Um you're moving well. Moving well, but you are definitely, at least for me, I am not running. Um, we already talked about this. Don't sweat. You know, you are gonna be inside. You do have access to a uh a um a wood stove um inside the uh the little cabin they have there. Um, but if you're drying stuff out, it could take hours. So you don't wanna you don't wanna get wet. Um plus you know you're going into the night. So um get to Butterfly Lake, see uh Cynthia, who is the race director's wife, and I I know a bunch of people there already, which so it's it's like coming home.

SPEAKER_04 42:36

Oh, that one's been fun.

SPEAKER_01 42:37

You know, they uh it's kind of like Hylone. Yeah, like Hylone and Miranda, you you know now too. You you I do so um you get there. Um, I have a a mental checklist of things I need to do so that I can get out of there a little bit quicker, um, knowing full well that at some point Cynthia is going to say, are we doing fireball shots before you leave? Um so I get some food. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. I went too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:12

Anything to warm yourself off.

SPEAKER_01 43:14

Exactly. I get food, I get uh I get a little bit changed because we're going into the night and we're gonna be dropping onto uh the next big section, which is the uh the Yentna River, um, and you travel on the river for quite some time. And even if it's not cold, the the temperature on the river drops a lot. So um leave butterfly lake, get out to uh there's there's these weird kind of like signposts um that are made out of wood. Are tripods. Um, the one that we need to turn left at to get onto the river has a plastic skeleton on it.

SPEAKER_03 44:12

Um no, that's very ominous. These directions are so Barclay-esque.

SPEAKER_01 44:18

You you get to the to the um skeleton, you turn a left, and you go a couple miles to get onto the uh onto the river. So um, like I said earlier, sometimes you you're also on a unmarked course. Um so I am following my GPX file that is from a friend of mine who has successfully done the 350 on her fat bike. Um, and I get to where I need to kind of bear to the right, and I'm looking at footprints, and I'm like, I am 99% sure that a friend of mine that I have been traveling with did not make this turn. So I quit, we still have coverage out there. I look at the um the trackers, um, and sure enough, she and some other guy are going the wrong way. So I'm trying to figure out do I race my own race? They'll figure it out at some point. So I went a couple miles out of my way, um, caught up to them, and like, hey, we we need to go back. So um, that was where I made my second mistake. Um, instead of going back, we kind of bushwacked, we put on our snowshoes, and we're going through a swamp um that had a lot of breakable crust snow on it. She's a little lightweight girl. Um, she's floating on top of everything. I have a pair of racing snowshoes, and I am breaking through like every other um every other step. I ended up pulling something in kind of the back of my knee. Oh no. Um, so I was I was not real happy with that, but again, you know how how do you feel about that decision in retrospect? I definitely still would have gone and gotten them, but I would have argued to go back on the trail. Um yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:30

So I already learned from JC that that was a mistake he made as well.

SPEAKER_01 46:35

Oh boy, um yeah, I caught up to him and uh heard about his decision making, and I was like, oh boy, yeah, that was rough. Um you do not want to be bushwhacking at this race. No, no, especially, and we're we're 30 miles in, we're one-tenth of the way in. So end up dropping onto the river. Um, and we're we're going long. Um I I took uh a couple of quick naps on the uh on the on the river um and made it to an unofficial checkpoint um where the year before I had breakfast. This year I had dinner there. Um, so I was like, oh, I'm definitely behind where I was last year. And um, but I was moving slower because I I couldn't I couldn't really do any type of uphill hiking, even though you're on a river, you're still going uphill.

SPEAKER_03 47:45

Um, but wait, was the difficulty from the snow, from this injury resulting from bushwhacking, or was it just mainly from the injury?

SPEAKER_01 47:58

Um, I was I was feeling a lot of pain when I would be going stepping uphill. Um so and where was that pain? Um, it I kept telling friends that it was my hamstring where it attaches to the back of my knee. It was more the the calf where it attaches to the back of the knee.

SPEAKER_04 48:20

Um the upper calf, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:22

So that does strain a lot on uphills, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:26

So um made that uh made that checkpoint, and I I was I was definitely having some low moments. Um and so I we all we all have some kind of of inreach or something like that. Um not for tracking. We have a a tracker that that the race gives us, but so I was I was able to to text with friends um through the in-reach. Um and I was like, I'm not saying anything, but mile 70 might be as far as I go. Um so you were already thinking about uh because I was like, if it's if it's uh any other race, you know, you're 15, 20, maybe let's let's say really, really out there, you're two hours away from help. Yeah, not not in Alaska, not at D ITI. Um, and I was like, I'm gonna be going from mile literally mile 75. There's an unofficial checkpoint um at mile 90, but then I gotta make it to basically 125 before I see anybody again.

SPEAKER_04 49:56

So yeah, you have to be pretty confident in your body's ability to get there.

SPEAKER_01 50:01

Yeah. So again, this uh this good friend of mine that that lives up here in Leadville, who has she completed the the race on bike last year, she's like, you know, you need to eat, you need to sleep, hard reset, do not spiral. And I was like, okay. Um, so that's that's when I had that that big meal I told you about. Um, I was sleeping on a um recliner because they had no no rooms, and in the middle of the night, I get this tap on my shoulder, and she's like, Hey Mitch, I have a room, I can't wake Sunny up. She's not waking up, and uh I'm like, I can't do that, and she's like, go take the room. So I took my sled, unpacked it, um, fell back asleep, got some really good sleep, um, repacked my sled the next morning, and I was like, I still feel this twinge, but I was a hundred percent better.

SPEAKER_04 51:11

So um wow, so here we go.

SPEAKER_01 51:14

Good news that so that was mile 70. Um, and we we push on to uh the next checkpoint, which is mile 125, where I can get my first drop bag.

SPEAKER_03 51:33

When you say we, are you how are you traveling with a group for a lot of this?

SPEAKER_01 51:38

So I did a lot of it this year um by myself, and then I would catch up to people or people would catch up to me. Um, so there was definitely a couple of times when it was a we um and then a couple of the the times that we left, it was we're going in a group because there's safety in numbers, right?

SPEAKER_02 52:06

Um especially at rainy pass.

SPEAKER_01 52:09

Yeah, so um so we're we're getting close to uh to the checkpoint at 125 and um a a group of people that I had been back and forth with, um, they catch up to me, and I'm I'm feeling much better physically now. So I know I can keep up with them. Um whereas at hooligans, they passed me like I was standing still. Um, one of them actually said, Mitch, do you want me to pull your sled? And I was like, dude, well, we're gonna cut my leg off first. I'm not having anybody pull my sled. But um would that even be legal? Uh-huh. I don't think anybody would have said anything.

SPEAKER_05 52:57

Yeah.

Finger Lake Winds And Frostbite Reality

SPEAKER_01 52:58

So but anyway, um, so we all are moving to to Finger Lake. It is about bright sunshine, um, minus 20, minus 25. And we're going along, and this uh this huge group of snow cats comes through, and they are kind of grooming the road that we're on because it goes up to a mine, and they just started mining there again. And these things are pulling tons of of weight. Um, and so we we step off, and it is literally shaking the the earth that we are standing on. So they pass, and we're going along, and I'm like, something is not right here with my GPX and the other GPX files that that people are following. And uh the snow machine comes up next to us and stops, and he's completely decked out from head to toe, and we're talking, and he's like, Mitch? And I'm like, Josh? And it's one of the guys that is the checkpoint leader for the checkpoint we're going to. And he's like, not saying anything, just uh be pay attention to uh trail markings when you get up here. Uh and we're like, oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 54:32

Is he not allowed to be allowed to say something? Like, is he not allowed to say something? Like as part of the race group, or like the race organization doesn't want to influence your navigation.

SPEAKER_01 54:42

It is kind of, yes. Um, so it is an unmarked course. You you just have to make the checkpoints. How you get there is is up to you. Got it. Um, but they also don't want to put people in harm's way, and it was very cold. A lot of people were missing this checkpoint, and he then says, Oh, by the way, when you get down onto the lake, you guys need to be very careful because we are measuring sustained winds of 60 miles an hour. And it's not a headwind, it was a crosswind for where we were coming across. Um, and so 60 mile an hour winds, minus 20 degrees. I I don't know what the the wind chill is, but it is very cold. So we come across the the lake, and it legit was 60 mile an hour winds. I was I'm a big guy, I'm 220, 6'4, and I was leaning into the wind with both of my my trekking poles and watching people in front of me get blown over. Um so it's low visibility, I assume, too. Um, yes. It was it was definitely a ground blizzard. Um you know, you could you could kind of see up above it, um, but it it definitely was uh I'd say probably my first oh my god moments. Um it was insane. And we're going to a tent that they have set up. Um so we get to the tent, um and they have a rule that is first in, first out. There's 12 spots to to sleep in. Um and so when I got there, I was like, Josh, do you still have room? Because I was I was wrecked. Everybody that was getting there was not in good shape. Um, they have a wood fire going inside, they have hot drinks, they have um burritos for us, and Josh is going back and forth because there are already a number of um people that are gonna need to get flown out from Finger Lake when they can get a plane there, um, because they have severe frostbite already. Oh wow. Um Josh, real quick, who is the um the checkpoint captain for for this past year. Um he is a United States Air Force uh officer. Um he is a in the medical group with them, and he is stationed in Anchorage, so he has extensive knowledge on frostbite and cold injuries, so he is not really doing anything with the checkpoint because he is managing multiple people that have frostbite.

SPEAKER_04 58:30

And how are you right at this point with frostbite?

SPEAKER_01 58:34

Um, I was fine, okay. Good. Um, but I was nervous about it. Um, but I again you gotta trust in your gear, and I knew that I had everything that I needed to uh to be warm and safe. So um we get there, um, we sleep for a couple of hours. Um, there's one, two, three, four. There's five of us that are gonna leave um all at the same time. We're gonna leave at three or four in the morning. Um, so we get our stuff hung um by the fire, we get some sleep. When we wake up, there are 22 people in the tent. And I already told you about the first in, first out, 12 people. So they're like, yeah, we we need to we need to bend the rules here. We can't put people out into that weather. So yeah, we all get our our hot liquids um ready to go. We are basically, I mean, I felt like we were armoring up, you know, to go into battle. Um, so a a small group of uh two guys, um, they're like, we need to go, we are already cold. So um they go even though they were part of our group, and then myself and two other people um head out. And going from Finger Lake, which is mile 125 to mile 150, a lot of elevation change. Um, something called the happy steps, which are not happy. Um and it is it is a mini crux of the race. Um so um we the three of us go out. Um one guy is having issues with his gloves and a vapor barrier that he is using. Um his his hands are already sweating and wet. And oh no, he's like, I don't know what to do. I'm like, dude, you need to get rid of the the vapor barriers, you need to dry your hands off, and we have to do that safely. Um, because it's it's still howling wind. And so we're going along, and he ends up ripping a hole in his sled bag from some willows that are kind of smashed down by the snow machines, but they're sticking up, and he's like, I'm turning back.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:33

So we're like, okay, uh he was just having too many problems.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:38

Yeah, we're not far enough away where that would be a bad idea for an individual to go by himself, you know. Um, so he heads back. Um, myself and uh one of my campmates from uh from ITI camp, um, gal named Hillary um is still with me. Um we're we're stumbling around. Um at one point she she won't hear this, will she? Um, no, no one she literally falls asleep while walking. Oh my god, falls into a snowbank. No, oh my gosh, and I'm like, oh my god. So um we're going along, um, and we come across a brother and sister who are coming back, and they're like, um, our comfort level and our risk level are not that out there. We are going back.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:43

Fair, fair, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:45

Hillary and I are like, what are we getting into? Um, sun comes up, everything is fine, it's still really cold, wind dies down, um, but it's still probably minus 20, minus 25 in the daytime temperatures.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:04

Wow, a high.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:06

Yeah. We're going along. Um of our fat bike friends uh catches up to us. Um he is from South Dakota, and he's like, Hey, my wife made these shortbread cookies, and I have four pounds of them, and I'm handing them out to people. Do you want some? We're like, oh heck yeah. Um, so we're eating shortbread cookies, and then here comes two snow machines, and we're in the middle of nowhere. And I'm like, I don't know who these people are, but I can I hope I know who they are. Um, sure enough, it's a guy that I ran into last year, about the same place, and I'm like, hey, I met you last year. You gave me a shot of fireball, and he goes, Are you guys ready for one? Reaches into his flag, pulls out this big, huge bottle of fireball. So um fireball is apparently the unofficial drink of Alaskans everywhere.

SPEAKER_05 1:04:16

Apparently.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:18

So we had um we had uh fireball and shortbread cookies.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:24

Oh, that sounds like a winning combo.

SPEAKER_01 1:04:27

That is having a good time, yeah. Yeah, that is what propelled us to Rainy Pass Lodge, Puntilla Lake, and Mile 150, and the the next checkpoint.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:39

Okay, so you made it to the point that you were at last year, but but you know, it was a bit harder this year, right? Like just every mile was a little bit harder this year than it was for you last year, right?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:53

So I made it last year, and again, not a fast guy. I made it in three days, four hours, seven minutes. Um not that I'm it's pretty good in the snow. Yeah, yeah. Um and pulling a and pulling a giant sled. Um so the uh rainy pass checkpoint is five days, and that's gonna be at two o'clock.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:26

Um you still there? I'm still here.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:34

We can hear you. You're good.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:37

Yeah, we still got you. You're good.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:39

Yeah, apparently somebody is calling. Um so we got there in four days, so a full day later, and we are gonna be leaving on the fifth day. Um

SPEAKER_04 1:06:01

Does that make you nervous for time?

Rainy Pass Lodge And Rescue Stories

SPEAKER_01 1:06:04

Not nervous for time. So we get to Rainy Pass um and they have a bunk house that is free to stay in. It has a wood fire. Rainy Pass is also the oldest continuously operating hunting lodge in Alaska.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:34

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_01 1:06:35

So they have accommodations. Everybody knows that they are expensive, but well worth it. So I get there and I text my friend Lynn back here in Leadville, and I'm like, made it to Rainy Pass. I am betting on my um I'm gonna make every every move I can to make this this finish. So um I got a room in one of the dry cabins. Um I got the meal. Um I think we ended up spending about$400 a person. Wow. Wow for a meal and a did you take a shower? I did not.

SPEAKER_05 1:07:29

Neither did JC.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:31

Didn't take a shower. He's too tired. I I did take a shower after I got back.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:39

Um that's that's going forward in the story.

SPEAKER_01 1:07:44

Yeah, um, best$20 shower I've ever taken. But anyway, um so we get there and there's definitely a nervous buzz going on because it is cold out. Um, I believe the overnight low at Rainy Pass was minus 50, and that is just the air temperature.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:14

And the wind was very windy, very windy up there. Yeah, I mean, every time at a pass, passes just attract highest winds you can feel.

SPEAKER_01 1:08:26

Um, so this is this is where I'll get a little bit emotional. Um, that's okay. We we got there, um and I know the owners, they are like family, they're super cool. I walk in the door, and Carly is like, Mitch, oh my god, so glad to see you. Um, she is the owner's wife. Um, Steve is the one that runs the place. Um, with their two kids are, I mean, it is an amazing place to live. Um, and so we get there and we have our plan. We're gonna leave at four o'clock the next morning. Um, so we're we're having a dinner. Um, it's it's a homemade meal, it is amazing. And so we go to bed, and right before we go to bed, we're like, let's go a little bit later, because we're we're starting to hear things, and we didn't know this at the time, but a group of people um got stranded on Rainy Pass. Um, one of them got severe hypothermia. Um, the race says, You are your only option, we cannot come to get you. But um the the people at Rainy Pass um ended up having to go and rescue some runners, and the with wind chill, they were estimating that it was minus 107. And these people were stranded up at the top of the pass. Um, and even even they they were like, we can't go now, we can't put ourselves at risk. We will go at first light. So they ended up getting the the folks down. Um but it was it was it was pretty emotional. We're we're going up the the trail, and these people that are very close to losing digits and potentially losing their lives are being brought back down. And I was like, are we like kind of disrespecting the people that just put their lives at risk to to save us, you know? So it was it was rough um heading out.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:13

So no, I mean I I think it's about it it's of course a valid thought, right? But the rescuers, you know, they're yeah, if you're if you are taking uh like a poor risk, right? Like if you're taking a risk that is not worth it, that is the high chance of failure, then yeah, you know, that's just putting other people at you know at risk. But you're going out fully prepared, you know, with all this gear, with with with all the intention of making it through, uh, very, very well prepared. I mean, you're in an invitational race that only lets you in because you did the work to get there.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:52

Right. That's true.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:54

I mean, unless you felt like the chance of needing rescue was very high, no, I don't, I don't think you disrespect the rescuers by taking the risk, as long as it's a managed risk. At least that's my opinion on it.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:10

So we uh we leave, there's three of us, um, and I'm I'm kind of leading. I am now in unknown territory. I have never been past where I left five miles ago. Um, and one of the folks in our party um all of a sudden is screaming, and I turn around and I look, and she's down on her knees, head on her sled. I'm like, what is going on? She goes, I forgot my parka. I left it back at the lodge. What? What? And we're like, um, okay, so we're problem solving. I'm like, I have another jacket, I can give you that. And I'm like, that is a horrible idea. I'm going to need that second jacket at some point. So she leaves her her sled on the side of the trail. We write in the snow, okay. She jogs back to go get it. Um, so now it's two of us, and we're going along. We all have different um ways of protecting our our faces. Um, I have a balaclava um that is a winter balaclava. Um, I have something from um cold defender, cold avenger, cold defender, um, that is a mask that has like a a respirator almost, um, but it just kind of keeps the air warm around your nose and mouth. Um while we're going along trying not to sweat, um, I have frozen my balaclava and my cold defender to my neck. And I'm I'm running through these scenarios of how am I going to be able to eat and drink for the next 18 miles when I'm going to have to take off my hat, take off my goggles, take off this frozen balaclava, expose wet skin to a very high wind chill so that I can quick eat and drink and then reapply uh dry stuff. And I'm gonna be able to do that twice. So my buddy is uh having issues with frozen zippers. He's like, Mitch, are we idiots? You already said that that I could I could say this, so I'm like, Brandon, we are fucking idiots. And he goes, I'm turning around, and I was like, okay. Um I didn't know what I was going to do at the time, but I could see a crazy ground blizzard about three miles in front of me. Um, and I was like, I don't know if I'm gonna be able to keep going. Not because of physical issues, but you know, I'm not gonna be able to eat or drink, and then I'm gonna have to try and and change out my gear. So I went up to where the ground blizzard was um and stood there for a minute and realized that I will now be putting myself at risk if I keep going, um, potentially putting other people at risk. So kind of stood there for a minute, um, screamed for a little bit, and turned around and came back down, ran into Hillary, who had gotten her jacket. Um and I was down in this kind of low area, and I was like, it's not windy. So I got something to eat, I got something to drink, and quick changed everything out. I'm like, maybe I can keep going. So turned around with her, and I was like, this is not going to happen, it's not going to work. Um, because as soon as we got up above that little indentation, it was just howling wind again. Um, so I was like, I have to, I can't make it up and over. Um, so I turned around and she goes, I will probably see you for dinner and beers later tonight. And then I'm like, no, you won't. So I went back. Um, we were we were following her tracker, and all of a sudden her tracker turns around and I was like, oh no. So she didn't make it up and over. Um John, who I I met him because um he was in my class. Um he did make it up and over, obviously.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:55

Um yeah, you can do his whole story in last week's podcast.

unknown 1:17:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:18:01

Um so ended up going back, um, had another meal at the uh at the lodge, um, slept in the bunkhouse that night because it was only it was only three of us, um, because everybody had either dropped and got flown out or had made it up and over. We were we were the last one, two, three, last four people there.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:30

And uh yeah, that was and how how are you feeling at this point having made that decision to end your race early?

SPEAKER_01 1:18:40

Um it was and always will be the right decision for me at the time, but I definitely question what would have happened if I had kept going. Um so yes, I did April 1st apply to go back.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:10

Wow, okay, that was gonna be my next question. You answered it before I asked it.

SPEAKER_01 1:19:18

So yeah, I I I'm happy with the decision. Um I have some really good friends that support me. Um, and they were like, you know what? That it was hard to make that decision, but it was the right one, you know. So um yeah, it it was it was definitely hard. Um, especially with so many friends that I knew that were literally 18, 19 miles away from me on the other side of the pass. Um, but then all hell broke loose on on the other side of of the pass between um Rhone, which is the next checkpoint. Um did John tell you about the uh the brats that Adrian makes there.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:21

I don't remember a lot of stories.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:27

So that that is the uh the next checkpoint. It is in the middle of nowhere. Um, it is not the place you want to drop because it will literally cost between twelve and eighteen hundred dollars to fly you out of there. Oh um, Adrian is one of the ITI staffers, um, he's been with the the program for quite a while, and he barbecues brats on this very remote checkpoint. And I was like, that's all I want is a brat from Adrian.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:06

So uh I mean it it sounded like in order for John, you know, hearing from him last week talk about how what it took to get through Rainy Pass. I mean, it sounded like he didn't eat or drink for those 18 miles, right? That same choice you made. Yeah, which I mean, you're two different people, it's not like the same choice works for everyone, so that's not what I'm trying to imply, but it's that's that's what it took to travel in that temperature.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:39

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:40

He couldn't take his gloves off, which he needed to do to eat and drink, so he had to just make the decision not to eat and drink. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:21:50

Um just I mean, that's crazy.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:52

You're you're really on the edge there, and that decision can put you in such a bad way mentally and physically.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:02

It spirals you when you when you can't get the nutrition, it definitely does.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:06

Um, and not to to spoiler alert, the uh but he he definitely paid a price um on the other side.

SPEAKER_03 1:22:18

So he lost a lot of weight and a little bit little bit of frostbite, a little bit of sleepiness on the trail, yeah. Yeah. But both of you have signed up to go back next year.

SPEAKER_01 1:22:33

Yeah, yeah. Um it's it's definitely gonna be a uh an adventure. Um I I know a lot of people that um probably wish they made the decision. Um, I have never met or known anybody who has pushed the SOS button on their uh their in-reach. Um, I met three people there at the race that that did. Um one of the gals that flew back from uh so everybody travels by push plane. Um so they had multiple um planes come in to uh Rainy Pass, to Pontilla Lake. Um, one that took a group out before me, my plane came in, dropped off supplies, flew around to Rhone, picked up some people, including somebody that spent a week in the hospital at uh in Anchorage because of severe frostbite um to her toes. So it's it's definitely a uh a thing. Um she sat behind me on the uh it's a little one, two, three, four, five, six-seater plane. Um one of those seats is the uh the pilot who you get used to it, but has his phone for navigation on a phone holder on the windscreen. No, like a like an Uber driver.

SPEAKER_03 1:24:22

I'm like, are you kidding me? I mean, they're incredibly good at what they do, they are very good at what they do.

SPEAKER_01 1:24:32

Um, it was the same pilot that blew me out last year. Um so if you if you want to uh not pay an exorbitant fee, um sign up for the ITI 150 because part of your registration fee is that that flight out of uh Rainy Pass, which you only you only have to do 150 miles.

SPEAKER_04 1:24:57

No, no, no, so I heard what happened in your first 150 miles. Not signing up for that.

SPEAKER_03 1:25:04

Well, Mitch, um before before we close, what uh what thoughts do you have to prepare for next year? Any changes you're gonna make to your strategy or gear situation, or do you think what you did was the right thing and you just need another year with better conditions?

SPEAKER_01 1:25:22

I I almost don't want better conditions. Um you want to do it, you gotta prove that you're good enough. Do over. You gotta you gotta I I feel like traveling 350 miles in Alaska in February is uh good enough. I mean, there it doesn't matter what the the conditions are, but um I wasn't even home a week and I had already ordered a different um pulled defender mask because they have one that is like a hood and then it velcro's on either side instead of on the back, so I can literally undo one side of it, quick eat and drink, even if it's frozen, and still get it back on, and not expose. You know, I don't have to take my hat, my goggles, everything off. Um, so I have one of those. Um, I'm waiting for a different color to become available. Oh, I mean, and I will be great. I will have two of those. Um, and then just do training again, you know. Um wow. I was I was fit enough. Um, you don't have to train extra to go from 150 to 350. Um, you just have to do it, you know. Um, so I feel like 99% of everything I did and everything I had was good enough. It was just that getting over the pass. Um so I I certainly hope that if it's the exact same weather conditions, that I don't go, well, I made X decision last year. I'm gonna make Y decision this year. Um, and hopefully it will be a smart decision. What and I'll I'll get over the past and onto the back side.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:45

Well, we'll be cheering for you. We'll be dot watching.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:48

We'll have you back on the pod.

SPEAKER_03 1:27:50

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 1:27:50

Well, Mitch, this has been a great conversation. Thank you for sharing your story. We like to ask our um guests to share a piece of advice with our listeners before we sign off. Do you have a piece of advice you'd like to share with our audience?

SPEAKER_01 1:28:07

Um for racing in general, racing in cold weather.

SPEAKER_04 1:28:13

It could be anything. It could be life. It could be racing. It could be racing in cold weather. I think one person said um we had an elite athlete and their piece of advice was eat more than you think you have to. That was their advice.

SPEAKER_01 1:28:28

Oh gosh yes that is that is great advice. I would say um specific to ITI or other races, I feel like it's it's more important um for ITI but put in the work with your gear so that you you feel comfortable and that you know it will do you know I'm not knocking another race but when when you're 20 or 30 minutes away from from help if all of your gear goes to hell you can still make it yeah you can still hobble out of there but definitely put in the work with with your gear um I'd say save your life great advice for this race it definitely could. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:29:33

Well uh thank you Mitch and uh thank you to the listeners who made it this far and uh keep on running with your problems. We'll see you next time.

SPEAKER_05 1:29:41

Thank you guys too much.